trev
blissed + gone
Posts: 602
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Truth
May 11, 2004 11:36:44 GMT 7
Post by trev on May 11, 2004 11:36:44 GMT 7
it's a hard topic to talk about, even on the net to people you haven't met, let alone in the real world with real freinds.
But what do you all think about it? How truthfull should you be with who? do you try to be truthful, even if it hurts you / puts you in a worse position? And what about Honesty Vs Truth, there's a difference i think. Are you honest with everyone, or different for different people?
My opinion, is that truth and honesty is the bigest power you have over your life, and how others treat you. if you have no secrets, there's no blackmail, no hiding, no covering up, less stress, less worry, it makes almost everything easier. So why don't we do it? i try to, i have been for a couple of years now, trying to absolutley honest and truthful wih everyone, and it's hard, because society expects us to lie, when it suits us. And sometimes, like today, i left my wallet home, and didn't realise till i got to the train station. I have a weekly ticket, and only had 1.20 change on me, so i couldn't buy a ticket. i asked the guy if he would let me have a ticket if i filled out some sort of IOU, and came back tomorrow and paid them back, i've done that at a petrol station once. And he said no, because he had been "burned" before. Even though i'm at the station 3-4 times a week when he's on.... and it shits me that if i had of lied, and said that the machine didn't give me a ticket and i lost my money, which happened once before, then he would've given me a ticket, no problems. But because i didn't want to lie, i had to risk getting a $100 fine. it makes you wonder if it's worth it, can people really tell anymore if you are lying or not? or if you are an untruthful person? it seems that the worst of our society make the rules for all of us to follow, people will only trust me as much as the least honest person the've ever met until i prove them wrong. Then people like me get sick of being treated like that without getting the benefits of lying, getting the punishment but not even the benfits of the crime. And so we give up and lower the bar and start being like the worst, and it spirals down... ok my rants over.... your turn....
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Truth
May 11, 2004 11:47:58 GMT 7
Post by .honeyspider. on May 11, 2004 11:47:58 GMT 7
And what about Honesty Vs Truth, there's a difference i think. Are you honest with everyone, or different for different people? tell me your meaning of the difference between honesty and truth trevor.. im interested to know. i dont know if im the best person to answer this right now, however in the past i have known that truth is the best, but not always taken that option through fear, worry and stress.. but as u say, there is less of those if u are honest to start off with. i guess its just the point of changing to the total truth where it is at its worst and hardest, because after lying, then telling the truth may mean loss of friendships etc. but i believe that if u lie then it is always found out one way or another.. so i guess that proves truth is the best... but people dont always take that option straight away. and i guess once u tell the truth, and people dont want u as a friend or lover.. then at least u know earlier.. without the crap in between of "pretending". it is wrong and disgusting to think that even i would take an option to lie and decieve before truth and honesty, but it happens, people slip up.. and u just need to understand what happened and why u did it, and that u were wrong and that u are sorry for it... and move froward from there, never forgetting how hurtful u are being to people by lying.
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Truth
May 11, 2004 14:54:37 GMT 7
Post by PaRkA on May 11, 2004 14:54:37 GMT 7
it is wrong and disgusting to think that even i would take an option to lie and decieve before truth and honesty, but it happens, people slip up.. and u just need to understand what happened and why u did it, and that u were wrong and that u are sorry for it... and move froward from there, never forgetting how hurtful u are being to people by lying. geez thats a bit full on, lets take trevs example about the train ticket, your saying that i should almost atone (the old samurai way of stabbing yourself in the chest) if i cheat getting a ticket, or lie about the fact that my rego sticker should be my windscreen, when in fact it is in the glove box out of sheer slackness, im sposed to NEVER forget how hurtful i am because i told a lie... i think there needs to be perimeters set. for the lying thing what about santa claus, the easter bunny, the tooth fairy... your saying that your parents should never forget how hurtful their being because theyre keeping those truths to themselves...... but at the same time i do believe that there is always a time when only the truth need be told... or maybe you were heading somewhere else with your reply.....
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Truth
May 11, 2004 15:51:55 GMT 7
Post by Tristessa on May 11, 2004 15:51:55 GMT 7
Sometimes truth changes over time and we are caught up in the moment and believe something that isn't the truth anymore. we must keep up to date with what is truth before its too late to realise that our perception of reality is wrong.
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Truth
May 11, 2004 18:03:14 GMT 7
Post by .honeyspider. on May 11, 2004 18:03:14 GMT 7
geez thats a bit full on, lets take trevs example about the train ticket, your saying that i should almost atone (the old samurai way of stabbing yourself in the chest) if i cheat getting a ticket, or lie about the fact that my rego sticker should be my windscreen, when in fact it is in the glove box out of sheer slackness, im sposed to NEVER forget how hurtful i am because i told a lie... i think there needs to be perimeters set. for the lying thing what about santa claus, the easter bunny, the tooth fairy... your saying that your parents should never forget how hurtful their being because theyre keeping those truths to themselves...... but at the same time i do believe that there is always a time when only the truth need be told... or maybe you were heading somewhere else with your reply..... yeh sorry parka i was.. lol it was something in relation to other conversations ive had with trev.. a bit more personal than the train ticket thing.. but i do get your point hehe
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Truth
May 12, 2004 7:03:07 GMT 7
Post by AlmostOz on May 12, 2004 7:03:07 GMT 7
lying is to be human
we are taught from the day we are born, that we are only to be good, and that we shouldn't do bad things because we get in trouble if we do.
i think that leads to an instinctual fear of getting in trouble when we get older (ie high school) there weren't many people (i say many!) who did something knowingky bad, then told the truth when they were caught.
how many times have you lied to your teachers to get out of something?
I think little lies are acceptable if it leads to something great (ie xmas, or suprise date/party for someone) but i just try to be accountable for my actions. Don't pass the buck.
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trev
blissed + gone
Posts: 602
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Truth
May 18, 2004 14:21:44 GMT 7
Post by trev on May 18, 2004 14:21:44 GMT 7
tell me your meaning of the difference between honesty and truth trevor.. im interested to know. Truth is factual, whatever can be proven, or at least beyond reasonable doubt. It refers to accuracy of information. Honesty, however, is more ethical. It is a lifestyle, one that we can move in and out of in a second. Honesty is doing, saying, believing etc. what you think is right. eg. If i was at an ATM, and the person leaves and forgets their money. It can be truthful to either pocket the money or not, and only ever mention it if and when you are asked about it. But it is honest to hand it in, or return it to the owner. So basically you can be one without the other, although honest people are most likely to be truthful as well.
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Truth
May 18, 2004 14:29:12 GMT 7
Post by Tristessa on May 18, 2004 14:29:12 GMT 7
Great explanation Trev! Couldn't have explained it better myself
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Truth
May 20, 2004 6:28:55 GMT 7
Post by .honeyspider. on May 20, 2004 6:28:55 GMT 7
Great explanation Trev! Couldn't have explained it better myself yeh hes good like that, got an explanation for everything... thought u wouldve guessed that by now dear.
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Truth
May 20, 2004 9:31:48 GMT 7
Post by Tristessa on May 20, 2004 9:31:48 GMT 7
No because I haven't known him for long therefore Trev's wisdom is new to me
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Truth
May 20, 2004 10:32:30 GMT 7
Post by .honeyspider. on May 20, 2004 10:32:30 GMT 7
No because I haven't known him for long therefore Trev's wisdom is new to me haha thats funny, i knew he was like that from the moment i met him.. but i guess we all see things differently..
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Truth
May 20, 2004 10:39:51 GMT 7
Post by Tristessa on May 20, 2004 10:39:51 GMT 7
Well technically I haven't met him so I can't see his wisdom
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Truth
May 20, 2004 10:52:26 GMT 7
Post by .honeyspider. on May 20, 2004 10:52:26 GMT 7
Well technically I haven't met him so I can't see his wisdom you cant "see" that kind of wisdom anyway... i didn't mean it that way. what i was saying was i knew he was like that straight away.. even b4 meeting him in real life, so to speak. anyway i wasnt trying to piss u off just stating a point...
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adwah
ghost child
*whir* reformed rebuilt regurgitated
Posts: 21
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Truth
May 21, 2004 5:42:44 GMT 7
Post by adwah on May 21, 2004 5:42:44 GMT 7
you should deal with everyone truthfuly and honesty untill someone takes advantage of this. In which case you should adjust the way you deal with that person.
eh?? no good?
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trev
blissed + gone
Posts: 602
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Truth
May 21, 2004 12:45:55 GMT 7
Post by trev on May 21, 2004 12:45:55 GMT 7
you should deal with everyone truthfuly and honesty untill someone takes advantage of this. In which case you should adjust the way you deal with that person. eh?? no good? no, very good. well said.
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Friends of P.
cherub rocker
Death to Elmo at the hands of Supergrover I say!
Posts: 88
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Truth
Jul 17, 2004 11:53:48 GMT 7
Post by Friends of P. on Jul 17, 2004 11:53:48 GMT 7
Truth is factual, whatever can be proven, or at least beyond reasonable doubt. It refers to accuracy of information. Honesty, however, is more ethical. It is a lifestyle, one that we can move in and out of in a second. Honesty is doing, saying, believing etc. what you think is right. So basically you can be one without the other, although honest people are most likely to be truthful as well. The truth is actually alot more convoluted than that Trevor, everyone's perceptions warp it the instant they perceive it. The only true way we could know the truth about all things would be if we lived within an orwellian society (think "Big Brother" kids). Honesty is dictated by a moral ethic code created by your particular society. So in a way both are flawed in that fact that both are dictated by a majority rules consensus. So what do we do? Well there are machines to be non partial deciders, but the flaw in this logic is they were created by a flawed human being. Therefore there is always that 1% possibility they may deliver a flawed judgement. We also have our judicial system. You are judged innocent or guilty by your peers. I'm guessing everyone on the board at some time has experiences dissassociation from their peers. What if you aren't endearing enough to the parameters that these people perceive as an innocent person. If you show no remorse is it because you are a cold blooded killer or if you just show no remorse because you simply didn't commit the crime. All I know is this one little phrase in one of my comic books "BY their Deeds you shall know them" It's very easy to verbally deceive someone of your intentions, but it's quite strenuos to remain true to character physically. Generally people will slip up in their actions rather than their words. Conversation can be worked around or claimed to be misheard, but deeds are physical evidence of the person you are. Also on this topic, watch Christopher Walken's speech in true romance about his father being a sicilian liar.
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