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Post by boelsen on Oct 30, 2006 18:19:21 GMT 7
so.. what do people think about religion.. and mainly christianity?
Where i come from, in a smallish bummy kinda town (kinda near josh) there has been a huge upsurge in the amount of people waking up a few hours earlier on sunday, and starting to hang out with the 'big man'. Its mainly also the youth that are beign easily converted/seeing the light. Are there many new comers where you guys are from? are you guys fans of the whole 'religion' thing? personally i find it fucking scary and hope its a passing phase that fucks off as quick as it came, but i'm not gonna hold my breathe...
i would ahve posted this in the faith... forum but doesnt seem many people go there and i was curious...
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Post by sunky on Oct 30, 2006 18:23:12 GMT 7
i see it as each to their own. i only have issues when people stop mixing with their famlies/friends less and their church more, the way i see it - these people only like you because you believe the same as them - if you stop, usually they'll stop seeing you also.
im speaking from personal experience, for the past 8 years, my sister and her husband have spent less and less time with our family, yet every weekend they are at church. but thats their choice.
im always interested in hearing everybodies opinions, but *puts on admin hat* this is always a touchy subject - so can we keep it on topic and not personal attacks. *takes off hat*
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Post by boelsen on Oct 30, 2006 18:54:44 GMT 7
i'll try and keep it nice. and i ahve the same kinda problem. Alot of my old friends have now turned chrsitian, and i saw one for the first time in about 5 years, and the first thing he tries to do is promote some christian event and get me to come along, and thats really all they care about. They only need other followers to get along with... My opinions are probably worse aswell cos the local people in my town seem to have to be the most dedicated and each one tries to out do the other in how extreme they can be. I could probably speak for a week about how much i hate it, but after your final statment i better not
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bazza
zero
What's your favourite year?
Posts: 143
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Post by bazza on Oct 31, 2006 8:59:33 GMT 7
I am an atheist. That being said, I do believe that there is a power that controls stuff that happens to a degree (like fate and kharma). But I believe this force 'just exists', like gravity, rather than a defined identity controlling what happens, like a 'God'. I do not 'worship' it, I just acknowledge it. I don't give my belief a name or make up rituals and traditions, it's just what I personally think happens and I accept it. All of that being said, I also accept other people have their own beliefs and customs, and worship entities and such. Where it all gets too much for me is when people get fanatical about it all, and/or force their beliefs on other people, believing their religion is the only one. It also shits me when people justify their actions 'in the name of God'. No, that's a copout. Take responsibility for your own actions. I'm sure their God would take responsibility for his/hers/it's/theirs. It's all about moderation, really.
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nezz
zero
Revolution is solution.
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Post by nezz on Oct 31, 2006 9:54:45 GMT 7
I think religion has forever created more problems then it has faith. I am friends with a lot of people from different faiths (Catholics, Christians, Plymouth Brethrens), and respect their beliefs. The minute someone tries to force a faith upon me, that is when I get defensive. I am actually a reading a really good book atm called "When Religion Becomes Evil" What surprises me, is that the government is investing $90 mill to allow schools to have chaplins of any religion. I think that is just going to create more unrest between religions. I don't think there is one religion that is right. It is important for people to believe in themselves above all.
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Post by boelsen on Oct 31, 2006 11:55:34 GMT 7
i also hate it when people push religion on you, tahts why i gave my best friend the big fuck off.
i also dont understand why schools need to employ chaplins, when councelors do just as good a job, and are there for all people, no matter what religion they are.
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nezz
zero
Revolution is solution.
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Post by nezz on Oct 31, 2006 14:07:39 GMT 7
Exactly. Man, have you seen the trailer to 'Jesus Camp' - tis on YouTube (of course) It's about a kids camp that teaches them about christianity. But there are children there crying about the fact that abortion exists! These kids should be not worrying about these sorts of issues. They are suppose to just be 'kids'. That is one example of stuffing a religion down one's throat.
But some things beliefs do for people are amazing. To be honest, religion angers me at times, and interests me. But I am definitely not going to stand in any direction of it.
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Post by blue_june_destroyer on Oct 31, 2006 15:04:30 GMT 7
Atheist... I don't understand organised religion. I've tried to understand why friends and family have chosen to follow a Christian or Catholic religion but I'm at a loss. I think mainly, looking back on all the friends I 'lost' to religion, they had no sense of direction in life and never even tried to believe in themselves and their own abilities... I guess that's half the appeal for them. I remember my friends taking wads of cash with them everywhere and when I questioned them, they simply told me 'This isn't my money - it's God's money... I'm taking it to my church tonight.' One of my friends would 'donate' $100 every time she attended church... her fucking life savings! she used to go 5 times a week and during the day would work to virtually pay for it. It was horrible... I often wonder what's she doing now... I despise that mentality that possessions are bad and money is evil...
Me, I've always believed that nothing is more important than believing in yourself before some false god... a lot of people can't see that.
Once again, as sunky posted, please keep your discussion in this thread to generalisations... if it gets personal, you'll be warned followed by a ban. We don't mind these kind of discussions, but please keep your heads and tempers under control.
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Post by boelsen on Oct 31, 2006 19:02:10 GMT 7
thats actualy a good point, alot of the people who are the new converts had no direction in life, and the worse they were the more extreme they are with their christianity. It seems an easy way to find some meaning in their lives I also wanna know if people feel they are wronging god by not donating... but i guess i'll never know as no one who has done the poll is a answered as being religious:( edit: actually someone is, just not sure who...
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Post by Josh on Nov 1, 2006 4:31:35 GMT 7
me. and i'm writing my response.
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Post by closer on Nov 1, 2006 14:46:34 GMT 7
OK...I 'm gonna think out loud for a bit here. What I'm saying will more that likely be changed in further posts...!
Quite often I think people often come up with "reasons" to justify a pre-existing stance on something, and not the other way around.... (forming an opinion based on whatever information is available..)
It doesn't really need to be said, but alot of highly educated and independent people are associated with many faiths.
I guess contradiction is something that people like to avoid by having rational thought before coming up with their opinion on something.
Alot of my friends are atheists, and use the usual lines most people give, for their reasoning. However, the rest of their lives lack that much thought behind their everyday behaviour.
I guess the main reason why religion is such a hard thing to discuss, is because we are trying to describe our pure emotions using "man made" words, which often don't allow us to be as specific as we'd like.
But yeah. The one thing I can't stand is the hate and division that often stems from religion. But that comes from whenever you give concrete reasons behind your feelings and opinions. You automatically (to a certain extent) isolate people who have a differing opinion, and give yourself little room to develop your own thoughts.
So in conclusion... I don't have one yet.
hahaha
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Post by boelsen on Nov 1, 2006 14:58:23 GMT 7
it also seems to be alot of people start batting for the other team (religion here, not sexuality) when they get older, which i was terrified about when reading jimmys first love letter, i thought they had ebcome a christian band and i would have to burn everything about them (including my jimmy sex doll) in fed square... but i'm slightly more hopeful that i was wrong, and i can continue loving the pumpkins for many more years.
....
Sorry, where was i, and also alot of people in near death situations who were never beforehand believers are so desperate for any hope that they start to believe, and then if something happens it must have been god, my uncle was the same way, so i cant bag them too much, i jsut think some times people are looking too much that if something good happens during a bad situation it must have been a higher power, people need more self belief, not arragonce, just a little more ... belief... in themselves....
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Post by boelsen on Nov 1, 2006 15:07:38 GMT 7
It doesn't really need to be said, but alot of highly educated and independent people are associated with many faiths. i think there are probably more that are not associated with any religion or faith.... I guess the main reason why religion is such a hard thing to discuss, is because we are trying to describe our pure emotions using "man made" words, which often don't allow us to be as specific as we'd like. i think it also doesnt help when people withoposing firm beliefs try and have a discussion about, it just ends up with the two people stating there opinions, thinking the other is wrong, and have a nice mud fight... or jelly.. depending which is easier to come by in these drought stricken times... i tihnk i struggle trying to hold a serious discussion...
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Post by zerorawk on Mar 14, 2008 18:40:25 GMT 7
Sorry to bump an old chestnut... but this kinda caught my eye.
My answer? None of the above. While I do believe in Jesus and what he preached, I don't particuarly believe that there is God and I find a lot of the stories about the J-man healing the sick and rising the dead to be rather farfetched. After all, the Bible isn't a historical account... it's a book. A collection of scriptures and tales passed down from generations... and every link in the chain tells a different story.
I'm not saying there isn't a God or that Jesus didn't do this or that... there's that possibility. But, I'll just find out when I get there.
I believe there is a creator... but I'm not too sure who it could be. It could be anyone... God, Buddha, Amun-Re... hell, it could even be the Fonz man himself, Mr. Arthur Fonzarelli for all I know.
As for the afterlife? I'll just find out when I get there. If I rot in hell, oh well... If I'm reincarnated, oh well... or if I spend an eternity in Heaven, oh well. I'll worry about it when I need to worry about it... and it's not time just yet.
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SomaGirl
zero
what hurts so much/is knowing we are free
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Post by SomaGirl on Mar 14, 2008 18:53:33 GMT 7
It's pretty clear to me, there is no god, i believe in evolution and reason... I find when people know they ask well where do I get my morals and such from... for me its pretty easy...don't hurt or exploit other people and don't steal their shit!
I came from a house with a Christan dad and a Hindu mum.. while their faith has helped them get through their life, I really don't see a need. I'm fine with the thought that when I die that is it. It just makes me want to achieve as much as I can while I'm around.
I guess for me the big difference I find with people who have "faith" compared to the rest is that I am lot more open minded myself.
If God... or whoever that is in charge came to me and said "Jyoti, I am the lord, follow me and you will be saved" I would be open to change my position. (After I evaluated the evidence of course ie: am I on drugs, is there a gas leak, did anyone else see it, is it an optical illusion, am i suffering from a delusion).
Where as you can show xtians and the like fossils and more scientific proof yet they still won't change their position.
At the end of the day, we stopped believing in multiple gods (Greek and Roman ones) so why not take that one step further and get rid of the last one.
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Post by Cygnet on Mar 15, 2008 15:52:51 GMT 7
I think this issue all comes down to what you consider the word "God" to mean.
If you're talking in the judeochristian sense then god as he is known can be reasoned out of existance:
The judeochristian faith believes in a God that is all seeing, all knowing, all powerful, and all good. This concept is pretty easily derailed by looking at 'natural' disasters. While God gave man free will, and therefore cannot be blamed for the atrocities we commit upon one another, millions of innocent lives are lost to earthquakes, tidal waves, etc all the time, and if god is all powerful and all knowing then hge is responsible, and if he is all good then this cannot occur. The common response to this is that such disasters occur for the 'greater good' ie- sacrificing life to many more. This argument is infallible because you can always say there is some bigger picture that we feeble humans cant grasp, but if God is willing to sacrific any one innocent life, then hes not all good. Of coarse the bible is full of contradictions, so you could assert that he was never meant to be all good in the first place, but thats another thing altogether.
Basically, I dont consider myself an atheist, because to rule out the possibility of any higher power of any kind seems foolhardy to me for the same reason organised religeon does, it goes against science, we must keep searching for the unknown and saying there definitively is no supreme power in the universe is like giving up. This is what i propose:
If you consider God as not an entity, but purely a force that runs throughout all things in the universe then its not that hard to imagine. Call it Love perhaps... I see religeous scriptures as purely didactic and metaphoprical, not to be taken literally. The main point of all of them is to love one another and to follow your knowledge of truth. There are various things in whichever text you choose to look at that seem contradictory to the main message because they are imbued in the social culture of their time and place, they are never the true 'word of God', they were written by men, and thats why there are some things that seem proposterous, sexist and biggoted in them now, and ppl try to take these elements seriously :s
Jesus is the son of God in the same way we all are, he was a man that stood up for what he belived in. More importantly though, the story of Jesus tells that even when Love (god) is destroyed by ours failings as men, it still has the power to resurrect itself and bring light to us.
I take a lot of things from many diffeerent religeons, you just have to read them in the right way, and ignore the fucking beligerent assholes who always make themselves the posterboys of various religeons when all they stand for is greed and sin. Its far too easy to prey upon people when your dealling with the fear of death.
Heaven and Hell are both right here, right now.
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lamarr
cherub rocker
Hey that's my bike!
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Post by lamarr on Mar 18, 2008 11:54:25 GMT 7
i think religion's heart's in the right place but it's extremely hypocritical and fucked up, and it doesn't realise this.
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Post by cherryonion on Mar 22, 2008 12:39:27 GMT 7
I believe in God but I don't really follow any religion.
I pray every night when I go to bed, if I'm not super tired or drunk even.
Basically, I just ask God to look after people I know or to thank or ask for something. And even if God DOESN'T exist, then my praying still works because it's like channelling all my positive thoughts over to someone else or into a situation that I'm anxious about.
Plus, my uncle died last year and I need to believe in a heaven for that reason. He came to me in a dream, in a lush green garden and told me that he knew all the answers now and that it was all ok.
So, IF believing in a religion or a God makes you a better person, makes you more hopeful, makes you think for 20 seconds a day about people who may need a miracle, then it's worth it. Even if it's not real, it's still about sending out positive energies.
Religion is an excuse for many wars and bad things in this world. But if religion didn't exist, I'm sure there would be another excuse for war anyway.
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Post by boelsen on Mar 22, 2008 16:10:15 GMT 7
So, IF believing in a religion or a God makes you a better person, shame... people i like on ozphoria: cherryonion believing in god doesnt make you a better person. believing in god doesnt give you better morals. I've never understood people who think that. How can someone think they have beter morals out of fear of someone watching over them compared to someone who is a good person purely out of the goodness of their own heart? If God... or whoever that is in charge came to me and said "Jyoti, I am the lord i think if god said this to you it would probably go: Jyoti, you have a fucking cool name, oh, and i am the lord
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SomaGirl
zero
what hurts so much/is knowing we are free
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Post by SomaGirl on Mar 23, 2008 20:47:52 GMT 7
lol, if god complimented me on my name, i'd give him a high five!
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