wolfbite
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Post by wolfbite on Jan 20, 2009 16:57:42 GMT 7
Smashing Pumpkins have announced that they will never release another album following the poor reception of their 2007 album 'Zeitgeist' and will now only release singles. Frontman Billy Corgan told the Chicago Tribune newspaper: "We're done with 'Zeitgeist'. There is no point. People don't even listen to it all. They put it on their iPod, they drag over the two singles, and skip over the rest. Our primary function now is to be a singles band, that drives Pumpkins Inc through singles. We'll still be creative, but in a different form. We won't do [the same old] live shows [either], where we try to draw a good crowd and balance the past with the present. We'll go small and do exactly what we want to do and stop playing catalogue. We'll be like a new band that can't rely on old gimmicks. I'm not stupid. I want people to feel good about what we do". www.glasswerk.co.uk/news/national/4669/Smashing+Pumpkins+Will+Not+Release+Anymore+AlbumsPumpkins Inc?!?!?!?!? I have never heard of him using a term like that before, anyone else? |
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Post by Anahedonia on Jan 20, 2009 19:15:39 GMT 7
people didn't like zeit, wah wah! music industry, wah wah! it was all james's fault, wah wah! people were talking during my acoustic songs, house lights up! wah wah!
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Post by sunky on Jan 20, 2009 19:20:08 GMT 7
To follow up that Billy has been bangin on about all these issues for ages now, yeah he has to a point but I dont think it is Billy's fault that people keep running with the same old quotes over and over again. The guy has probally said those things 8 or 10 times in various interviews over the year but they are the bits that keep getting reused and reused. 8 times to many? yeah maybe, but not every person out there reads, listens to every interview.
Not to get off topic, but the whole James' fault thing, we don't know the inside workings of the band. Maybe it was James' fault, just saying and maybe that hurt to express that 8 years ago. But yeah it is wearing thin with me, I just want to get some music in the next few months, put all this in 2008 and just make 2009 about writing music.
As for the Pumpkins Inc, I've heard Billy talk about themselves like that before. As a business model. We have to remember that they are a business and it is odd to hear them talk about all the business stuff ... its weird to me too.
(just had to edit that, I had terrible spelling in that ... thats what 5 hours sleep will do to you)
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Post by Anahedonia on Jan 20, 2009 20:08:14 GMT 7
Not to get off topic, but the whole James' fault thing, we don't know the inside workings of the band. Maybe it was James' fault, just saying and maybe that hurt to express that 8 years ago come on simon, i know you of all people know bill all too well by now. do you really think it was more james's fault than bill's? i'm not saying do you think james had said i've had enough, i'm saying don't you think bill's personality and the prospect of going on in that band weren't the real reasons? for bill to blame it on him is a real cop-out. for example just watch the 666 tape and the way bill belittles darcy, or say that rio mcis show where darcy cracks it. these (for me) are good examples of insight into the band. it seems to me like, to put it really simply it was james and darcy on one side and bill and jim on the other. so when darcy left i can totally see why james wouldn't want to be in on it. seems he'd been on the outs with bill for a while anyway. |
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Post by sunky on Jan 20, 2009 20:45:46 GMT 7
Oh no way, I think its all sides to blame, and I agree the band was also split into two halves. I James always felt didn't want Jimmy back, that was a Billy decision and that was the end of it then. I agree it would have been Billy's personality, it would be a hard thing to work with. Also it would have been frustrating for Billy, James isn't the best player and D'Arcy ... well we know that too. So would it be hard for BC and JC to hold back where they wanted to take the band because James just didn't want to do that style anymore?
That is the thing with the Pumpkins, they were never meant to break up. They were 4 people with a variation of musical background that were meant to evolve with each other. In theory this works, and did for some time. But all it took was 1 half going one way, and the other half going the other. This was a gradual thing since Adore I felt, when we started to see robot James appear on stage. No interest at all.
What is annoying to me, is everybody is turning on Billy again and painting James as a perfect band member. When he is just at fault as Billy, Jimmy and D'Arcy to the break up of the band. I love James and miss him being a part of the band, but he wasn't perfect and if Billy says that his actions were a part of the break up of the band then that very well could be the case. Which I think you've said already.
This whole blaming everybody, society, iPods, iTunes, James etc ... as I've said is wearing thin and I hope we've heard the end of it from BC/JC. Just record some of those new songs, release them in a certain way and let the music speak for you. I think that would restore the faith of some fans more so than going around and round on the same topics. Would you agree?
(sorry for the lack of cohesive structure, sleepy tired and working still at 11pm ... discussion fail)
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Post by boelsen on Jan 21, 2009 6:32:17 GMT 7
thing that shits me with the singles thing is on the live front billy is all ' fuck you, i'll do what i want and i dont care if you like it or not', and to his credit does it, but with singles he bitches about people not liking zeitgeist, so he now bows before the 'non' fans saying the pumnkins will just do singles, doing what they want, when the pumpkins fans still want full albums and physical releases
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Post by jonzey on Jan 21, 2009 6:58:40 GMT 7
so he now bows before the 'non' fans saying the pumnkins will just do singles, doing what they want, when the pumpkins fans still want full albums and physical releases That's a good point. The problem is - as much as a good song GLOW is, I've never heard it on JJJ, and barely anything from the American Gothic EP. If Australia's biggest alternative station isn't playing the new singles, who will play them in Australia? He's right though...I'm least likely to listen to Zeitgeist out of all Pumpkins albums. The songs I'd identify as songs I'd want to listen to regularly are probably Tarantula, C'mon Let's Go (because of fond memories seeing it live) & 7 Shades of Black. Maybe Doomsday Clock. I don't know who's fault that is - mine for not getting a connection to the music, or his for not creating music I can connect with? I do worry about where this is all going. Even 'hardened' fans seem to be getting sick of this and aren't looking forward to the 'singles era'. |
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wolfbite
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Please don't feed the animals
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Post by wolfbite on Jan 21, 2009 7:28:46 GMT 7
pumpkins fans still want full albums and physical releases Personally I will never buy a digital release, if it isn't a CD, Vinyl, DVD or whatever else comes our way I will not buy it. Digital release hold no value for me. The problem is - as much as a good song GLOW is, I've never heard it on JJJ, and barely anything from the American Gothic EP. If Australia's biggest alternative station isn't playing the new singles, who will play them in Australia? I don't think that American Gothis was ever going to be something that was going to get great radio play however if Glow had of been a physical release, maybe in the lead up to a record then I think it have got more play. Just releasing a track on iTunes without anything else going on isn't going to attract much attention. I think that Billy's plan of just releasing singles is flawed as this is going to happen everytime. |
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Post by jonzey on Jan 21, 2009 7:45:17 GMT 7
Just releasing a track on iTunes without anything else going on isn't going to attract much attention. Come to think of it, maybe GLOW was basically a Guitar Hero single - ie, written and released to see how the Guitar Hero vehicle could get used. Being a big GH player, this sits quite well with me, but probably screams 'sell out' to most people - but let's not get started on that topic shall we?  I gotta say...if you posted half of BC's comments on a general music site, they would get ripped to shreds with flames and taunts. It's bizarre - make your statements to scare off the people who you don't want at your shows, but then tell the true fans you'll only get a few songs a year? Hard to understand. |
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Post by sunky on Jan 21, 2009 7:52:48 GMT 7
Yeah Bill's attitude toward crowds does shit me sometimes, it has to work on both sides of the stage. Understand people have a certain level of expectation, but I think their frustration is that there was little respect from the crowd. People saw their tours as a reunion, not as a support of a new album. The Adore tour they got the respect, people excepted they weren't playing Geek USA, Mayonaise, I Am One etc ... it was a new sound, new era ... but this tour it was like. Well you're back, play what we want. Lets be honest, we were all like that. I wanted to hear Muzzle, I was so shat off it got cut from 2 Australian shows! ... but it was everything else they played that made up for it. This doesn't excuse his attitude towards the crowds, and also shouldn't label every fan/crowd just like the next ... everybody is different. I some times think he isn't talking about fans most of the time too ... its the casual fans he doesn't want anymore.
They also need to explain what they mean by "singles" (and they will be answering it). It doesn't mean that it will just digital, or just 1 song ... everybody is using GLOW as the example for their future releases. When I don't think we should until we know for sure. We could have 4 EP's released in a year, and they could be the singles they are talking about.
So lets not jump the gun. I've said this a few times, the music industry worked this way back in the 60's. The Beatles, Elvis etc would release a few singles over the course of a few months. Giving people music as it is made ... it meant more music, more of the time and allowed the artist to work without deadlines. The Beatles released 12 albums, 24 singles, a double album in less than 10 years. The something changed in the music industry ... the business model for companies changed. It suited them to push an artist for a year, then give that artist 2 years off and focus on the next band, then bring the first band back again. How is that heathly for the fans and for the band themselves. That is why so many bands broke up from the 90's.
... SP need time to get this project underway, they just finished the US tour a month ago now. They are getting the studio together and then we can start to judge this grand plan of theirs.
As for JJJ not playing the Pumpkins, that isn't the Pumpkins fault. It is the issue with them not being on a record company. Triple J have a copy of GLOW/Superchrist btw, I've supplied them with it. But for whatever reason, they aren't playing it.
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Post by boelsen on Jan 21, 2009 8:01:13 GMT 7
The tour thing didnt really bother me that much, maybe just cos billy seemed like a bigger prick in the US. Although i agree with the whole muzzle tihng  But its their reasoning for the 'singles' decision that pisses me off. had they said the times are changing and so are the pumpkins, then fine, but to justify changign the way you record music cos people who arent really fans dont wanna listen to a full album, tell them to go fuck themselves billy  I agree with dear Wolfy though.. if they think DIGITAL singles/eps/releases are the way of the future, they wont be getting a single cent out of me. |
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Post by boelsen on Jan 21, 2009 8:07:40 GMT 7
This whole blaming everybody, society, iPods, iTunes, James etc ... as I've said is wearing thin and I hope we've heard the end of it from BC/JC. I think whats really pissing you off there Simon is that you're an apple fan boy |
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wolfbite
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Post by wolfbite on Jan 21, 2009 8:14:27 GMT 7
As for JJJ not playing the Pumpkins, that isn't the Pumpkins fault. It is the issue with them not being on a record company. Triple J play lots of independent stuff, I don't think that this would be the reason at all. |
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wolfbite
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Post by wolfbite on Jan 21, 2009 8:25:50 GMT 7
Maybe Billy only wants to do singles because it is easier for him and Jimmy to sneak away from the rest of the band and record a single without them. We all know how he doesn't play nice in the studio.
Off topic to this conversation but have they been involved in any recording (apart for the If All Goes Wrong stuff)? I don't think they have been (happy to be corrected as it will alay some fears about the stability of the current line-up for me), I reckon the girls, particularily Lisa, will go along with the flow for a bit with that but I feel that Jeff will not and he could potentially leave the band if not included in song writing / recording.
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Post by sunky on Jan 21, 2009 8:29:11 GMT 7
Independent artist ... and a former "Largest band in the world who have just ended their record company ties to become independent" is completely different in my opinion.
Sure they played a few songs from NIN's The Slip, but that was more about the "internet free release" etc ... but its different, as this was a single song ... for a computer game. A computer game that JJJ couldn't mention, as it would count as advertising. Just to let you know, when I was on there in November I was told not to mention anything about Guitar Hero or even Greater Union / Village Cinemas ... as its all advertising.
This discussion is great, and is something I'm trying to get some answers on for some PMM articles ... because people want to know and I also think people deserve to know too. Digital releases also effect the "collectibles" of a band too ... besides the Zeitgeist booklet release and the 7" vinyls ... there hasn't been that much 'rare' items to collect since the return huh? ... which is sad. A band that has had such a great history of physical releases with a vast range ... to now have nothing.
It also begs the question, is this the band taking the cheap option? Will taking the cheap option allow them to spend that money on touring? ... by cheap option I mean, digital releases. What do you guys think?
(also I know this has gone off topic, but its kind of created its own)
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Post by sunky on Jan 21, 2009 8:35:23 GMT 7
Maybe Billy only wants to do singles because it is easier for him and Jimmy to sneak away from the rest of the band and record a single without them. We all know how he doesn't play nice in the studio. Off topic to this conversation but have they been involved in any recording (apart for the If All Goes Wrong stuff)? I don't think they have been (happy to be corrected as it will alay some fears about the stability of the current line-up for me), I reckon the girls, particularily Lisa, will go along with the flow for a bit with that but I feel that Jeff will not and he could potentially leave the band if not included in song writing / recording. I have to agree with that, if they are not included in the next year at least ... it will be hard for them to stay with the band I think. Like they are facing the crowds each night too, they'll need to be included in the process soon or yeah ... we could have a Zwan situation. and yeah, they haven't been included in any of the recording apart from that one If All Goes Wrong session ... and to think about it, that was done only after them being in the band for 3 months at that stage. |
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Post by boelsen on Jan 21, 2009 8:50:47 GMT 7
Its kind of a hard situation.. it would be awesome playing in a band like the pumpkins, but if you cant write and are just a puppet playing someone elses stuff, would better being in a band where you can write.
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Post by boelsen on Jan 21, 2009 8:55:53 GMT 7
It also begs the question, is this the band taking the cheap option? Will taking the cheap option allow them to spend that money on touring? ... by cheap option I mean, digital releases. What do you guys think? (also I know this has gone off topic, but its kind of created its own) It really depends what you call rare. releasing 2500 things which already cost a fuckload.. nyeah.. i can go without something like that. (like with the NIN ghosts version.. mind you, US70 for postage didnt help either!) I guess also if a band wants to release something in small amounts, if they dont sell it for a shitload, someone else will.. with ebay etc.. so the band might aswell do it to get the money. |
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wolfbite
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Post by wolfbite on Jan 21, 2009 9:45:46 GMT 7
Prehaps a PMM article which actually clarifies what Jeff, Ginger & Lisa's roles are would be good for the fan base, I wonder who we know that could wirte that?  ;o) I know Jeff has made comments about him talking to Billy in reference being involved in the recording process but I would really like to know the offical position. Are they just touring members or are they fully-fledged members? If they are fully fledged members then for what reason would they be left out of a recording session (and the Superchrist film clip for that matter). In reference to the going the cheap option (iTunes) I am obviously against it and I think it alienates the fans who don't want to buy their music that way (including myself). I don't think that they spend on whole heap touring. They are playing to pretty good crowds (even if Billy doesn't like everyone that goes along) so I doubt that they need to hoard money to enable themselves to tour. Is iTunes just a phase, is it laziness, is it a due to not having a label? Who knows, all I know is that I will never purchase a thing from it. Also, if they where just being cheap then I don't think that they would have bothered with film clips for G.L.O.W. or Superchrist. |
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Post by brendo on Jan 21, 2009 13:56:24 GMT 7
Do you know how much a tour costs? Each show with full production probably costs about 200 grand to put on, maybe more.
Add travel and living expenses.
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Post by boelsen on Jan 21, 2009 15:09:47 GMT 7
take out 'probably' and you'll sounds much more knowledgable.. with 'probably' you sound just like anyone else who doesnt know how much it cost
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Post by foxy on Jan 21, 2009 16:07:09 GMT 7
as long as they keep livesp.com up then i reckon this is fucking great news...
They are always gonna write songs, they are always going to play them at shows.. Small audiences with new songs will be great in my view. So they won't be recording albums, if there's SBD recordings of them available then in my view thats just as good. It means that songs aren't over produced and quite frankly I've always been a big fan of live recordings...
So then they play these songs live, get in the studio and record a few tracks that they feel comfortable with and they release them.... Sounds great to me.
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Post by boelsen on Jan 21, 2009 16:16:20 GMT 7
aslong as its a physcial release of the singles/eps and albums in the end.. i'm fine with that.
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jacofox
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Stand Inside Your Love
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Post by jacofox on Jan 21, 2009 21:00:10 GMT 7
new songs=good, in whatever form. Maybe this is just a way for the pumpkins to ween out the hardcore fans from the ones that go to the concerts to see just one or two songs played. Because yeah Billys complaints are getting a bit old...but it would be frustrating trying to evolve as a band when its the fans that are holding you back...
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wolfbite
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Post by wolfbite on Jan 22, 2009 4:50:38 GMT 7
Do you know how much a tour costs? Each show with full production probably costs about 200 grand to put on, maybe more. Add travel and living expenses. isn't that why you work with a promoter??? |
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Post by brendo on Jan 22, 2009 6:13:09 GMT 7
take out 'probably' and you'll sounds much more knowledgable.. with 'probably' you sound just like anyone else who doesnt know how much it cost I swear i posted a reply saying I know what $50k of gear looks like and a SP show is at least 4x that. Um, promoters... need to make their money back, obviously... but didn't Pumpkins Inc finance part of the last tour themselves? |
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Post by Anahedonia on Jan 22, 2009 19:00:12 GMT 7
wow, i really bag bill out on this board a lot. i'll try to stop doing that so much. So they won't be recording albums, if there's SBD recordings of them available then in my view thats just as good. It means that songs aren't over produced and quite frankly I've always been a big fan of live recordings... So then they play these songs live, get in the studio and record a few tracks that they feel comfortable with and they release them.... Sounds great to me. ^ |
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Post by Anahedonia on Jan 22, 2009 19:29:31 GMT 7
Oh no way, I think its all sides to blame, and I agree the band was also split into two halves. i know what you're saying but i still feel it was more bill's, or bill and jim's fault, i think he maybe pushed them away. if he and jim are the driving force in the creation of the music, then they automatically have some sort of upper hand or would have some sense of being more important and if they weren't careful with how they interacted with the other two, it'd be easy to make them feel on the outs. that's something that's in their control, not james' and darcy's - that's the best way i can explain it atm anyway. I James always felt didn't want Jimmy back, that was a Billy decision and that was the end of it then. i always got that feeling too. This whole blaming everybody, society, iPods, iTunes, James etc ... as I've said is wearing thin and I hope we've heard the end of it from BC/JC. Just record some of those new songs, release them in a certain way and let the music speak for you. agreed I think that would restore the faith of some fans more so than going around and round on the same topics. Would you agree? well... short answer yes |
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