Studio release plans.

[sunky]

So an update from SP:
www.smashingpumpkins.com/pages/news/information-regarding-upcoming-studio-subscription-model

What do you guys think of this? is $40 a bit steep for "exclusive" material from the studio.

[de-tec-tive]

hmm yeah it is a tad expensive. i hate to say it but i don't think i'll do it.... cool idea though i guess.

[sunky]

I posted this on SP.com and this is how I see it ...

$40 might sound steep to some, but imagine if this was a release you would buy in the stores or buy from the iTunes store? We'd be looking at $30+ for a release of a "behind the scenes" doco and that would only be about 1.5/2hrs I guess?

A 5 hour release of exclusive studio, behind the scenes material for only $40 ... thats a bargin to me. I've spent a lot more in the past for a lot less when it comes to the Pumpkins. It just feels different because we are getting the material during the process, not as a finalised product at the end. If in 3 months SP came out and said, you can buy a 5 hour release of video/audio for $40 would it be a different reaction I wonder.

[boelsen]

i think a little expensive aswell, AU$57 bucks for it is a fair bit. also, depending when it happens i'll be overseas, so wont get much use of the updates as they happen, or even watch them.

also, the way billy talks is that it'll be part of a film in the end, which i guess we'll end up buying, so if he could say you pay up front now a little more, you get the released film at the end, i'd buy even if i couldnt watch it now.

the other thing is, it takes a true fan to pay for something thats free.. and judging from the comments on sp.com, alot of people are willing to let other people pay and just watch on other places. if i wasnt travelling and and had time to actually enjoy the updates, i think id buy in. as it is, probably not.

[Steve]

Should run a poll in this thread to guage interest sunks. I think for at least 5 hours, $40 Isn't a bad deal. Then again, it isn't like you walk away with any physical item....I would assume/hope it comes with downloads however. Agree with you, i've spend lots, lots more for much, much less over the years.

Not too sure how keen i am on this....will have a think about it..In the mean time lets watch everyone bash Billy for being a money grabbing whore huh?

[sunkissed]

Haha. I'm definately going to spend the money. 57 dollars is nothing, I'd love to spend fifty seven dollars on smashing pumpkins material, being "involved" in the process sounds really cool. 5 hours of music/video/lyrical content etc etc is worth more than the money. I've always loved hearing the songs evolve, say the difference between songs from the machina acoustic demos to the machina album. This will be incredible, I hope this idea of what the music is "worth" doesn't get in the way of too many fans, I'd love this project to get off the ground. I realise that people can download it and blah blah blah and i'm a big fan of the old downloading things for free, but I'm always willing to spend my money on the pumpkins if it keeps them alive.

[sunkissed]

looking around the net it seems people are really unhappy about this model. Looking at it a second time i realised i got a little excited thinking that we'd get music updates which i assumed would be a rough demo cut scenario, but it seems like it may be nothing like that at all.

Linda strawberry has been posting on the o site for the subscription model thread and she is interested in what people want from the project and why they feel that they are being ripped off or whatever.

Personally, it seems like this project could be nothing more than a video blog with snippets of music and/or video and I'm not sure that it would be worth paying for if that's the case. However, maybe i live in neverland or something because I still don't believe billy would ask for the money if it could just be released for free, there must be more to it!!!!

I can hope.

[sunky]

I'm going to see if I can get an official answer on a few things, few things that I guess Billy thought people would just assume.

Like will we get audio (the update does say video/audio) so hopefully.
Will we be able to download the videos/audio? or is it streaming.

I know PMM is trying to get some of the queries people have on this, I think they'll need to do a "first week is free" type thing to get people interested, just so they know what they are paying for.

[sunkissed]

the PMM mentioned that the video would be streaming content which would be accessed via a membership logon and it would be the responsibility of the users as to whether the content would end up being torrented etc because obviously they are aware that embedded video can be ripped...

[sunky]

Ahh gotcha, been catching bits here and there between doing work. Ok so thats an interesting thing, 5 hours of streaming video ... yeah not that bad I guess. I paid $70 for a year with a BowieNet membership, that got me live and backstage streaming video.

[sunkissed]

sorry, just to be clear, the 5 hours includes music, they said streaming content (it was in reference to music too, not just video) - but from what linda is saying and the PMM it seems like "demos" and rough cuts are to be assumed, video content I imagine would be recording and people talking about their parts. Billy mentioned lyrical content, so perhaps shots of him writing and talking about the lyric process?

Anyway it would all be really interesting. It's funny though, Conor Oberst has released an hour long documentary on his band (The Mystic Valley Band) for free on his site, people are just encouraged to donate money to a charity.

I know people need to be paid and all that, considering billy's not on a record label, so if we are paying money I hope that it's going to be more than the quality of msots dvd and the zeitgeist dvd.

[sunky]

Yeah thats a really good point, I think it would be more accepted by fans if it was approached differently ... lets say, less business sounding. However 1 hour doco over 5 hours of material is a bit different ... and was it a daily thing? This will be a daily job for somebody, definately a few hours work each day.

I think if it was $40 for 12 months, say as part of a fanclub, everybody would be cool with it. Since nothing is set in stone, I get the feeling they will listen to fans and maybe change to approach. Like they said, this is just to see what the people want.

[boelsen]

i figured it was the later of which you said michael.

generally the making of features are bonus's with an album so you can charge a little bit more, admitadly its not 5 hours though.

[brendo]

Well they've already changed approach on the archive project, so yes, if we cry and kick and scream loud enough, I do think they'll change tact.

[boelsen]

i'm more than happy to pay for the archive stuff, we get actual music, and shit we can keep, rather then 5 minute updates from the studio.

i was also disapointed after reading 'studio relerase plans' i was expecting info on how they plan to release new music, not release webisodes on the recording of the album

[bonno]

i agree boelsen, streaming sucks. if i were going to pay 57 bucks or whatever, i want it to be something i can keep to make it worthwhile.

[brendo]

Aaaaaaaand there we go, teh b0lly has Renewed and Revised his plans:

Hello, thank you for signing up for these updates. Because of the nature of today's post, and how the different ideas interact, I will be touching on both proposed business models; the archive fan-club and the new 'window' into the album songwriting sessions. Around 6,000 of you have shown interest in these updates, so because I am assuming you are on the dedicated side already, I will try to get to the center of the issues without a whole lot of contextual explanation.

Our first concept that we threw out for the archives (300$ for 200 songs) was met by a whole lot of complaining. Because we desire a harmonious relationship with those who would most want a completest approach to the bands history, we have revised this to a 40$ (proposed) fan-club sign up and this has been met much more positively. I think this demonstrates a willingness to work together to find a balance that will sustain over the next decade plus. The average mainstream fan doesn't give two hoots about that gig in Iowa in 1989, so we aren't even going to bother them with this kind of stuff, hence creating the relationships with you. We have enough on our hands to get them (the mainstream) to listen to newly recorded work. As you can see, everyone in the record biz these days is having the same problem, so it not particular to SP.

With that in mind, I have additionally proposed something quite unique as far as a 'window' into my songwriting processes with the idea of 12 weeks of mini-TV (about 25+ minutes a week broken into 5 updates OR 5+ hours of content). This would dwarf the kind of access that was given for example in the 'if all goes wrong' dvd, where one could see me briefly working out some idea. Having seen some of the raw footage from what Kristin shot at that time, there were moments that played out over 5 or 7 minutes that were quite interesting on their own but were definitely too long for a movie that had to hold a plot narrative. One of my favourite moments not shown in the film was the morning I wrote the riff for 'Sunkissed'. You see me playing some bs blues and I stop, take a deep breath, and then the idea comes out fully intact in one crystalline moment. Even I was surprised, and for the next few minutes you see the song just pour out of me. I realize for most this is not interesting at all, but this is interesting for some and that is the point of a project this is an optional, pay-if-you-want to see it deal. You would get to participate in moments essentially as they unfold. Here however is where it indeed does all go wrong...

'Take a walk with me
Tell me what you see
Take a walk with me tonight"
-lyric from an unreleased song I wrote last year

Last night I made the mistake of reading some of the feedback to this proposed idea. To say I was dismayed at some of the comments would be an understatement. The reaction was 50/50 mixed and very negative on the one side. I was so upset that I wrote a very long post in reaction, mocking the arguments made and canceling it altogether. Reading how something as open-hearted as inviting you into my inner-world of creativity turns into a sick, capitalistic manipulation is really disappointing to me personally. I speak not as the head of a multi-million dollar corporation, but as someone who lives and breathes being a musician. (I unfortunately made the vain mistake of asking for 3 dollars and 50 cents a week). The 40$ figure as a 'all in' was arrived at because I wanted to insure that those that were interested were going to take the whole ride for the all 12 weeks. I had expressed that this was not a profit driven business model, but many questioned the truth in that and went on to turn into personal attacks seeing it as yet another example of me taking advantage of them. Judging by this kind of feedback I would say this idea is dead on arrival. Which leaves me with 2 choices; cancel or revise.

My heart says to cancel, because the whole thing isn't worth the hassle for the few thousand that would show up and faithfully engage in something new and exciting and trust me on the expenses involved to deliver such a project to them. The willful part of me says I know this is a really cool idea because it will force a new kind of dialogue between artist and listener at a much earlier stage in the process.

In my last extensive post, I promised love and light moving forward. But I also promised reality as we struggle to find what is going to work business-wise in the years ahead. The Smashing Pumpkins 'business' is alive and well (thank you), or I wouldn't have just completed 165 date tour a few months back. Its laughable for people to think that this is some kind of way to stuff my pockets. One 90 minute concert alone and the profits from that completely blow such stupidity out of the water.

I have found thru the years that when I must become a salesman that this in turn reflects poorly on me as an artist. If I was a good salesman, there would be more than 6,000 people reading this newsletter, and I would be doing everything in my power to tell you why this a good idea and not a bad one.

Right now it's a bad idea because this proposal has some (not all) accusing me of all sorts of lame things that have little to do with the spirit of the music or the business that surrounds it. I don't need your money, for I am going to film these sessions anyway. The difference here was if we had an audience and a budget to work with, well then we could make it a whole lot of fun for everyone who wants to 'be there' and wants to see-here how the magic gets made. Great attempts would also be made to provide additional content to justify your participation. It would come with the responsibility on us to get the technical end right on a daily basis, hence the extra budget necessities to be able to turn footage around quickly.

Pandering to people for $ has never been my trip. I just don't care that much. So here's what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna lay it all out there to you as a community. You decide what you want to do, because I already know what I'm going to do. Its your call. I figure to do this right its about 2,000$ a day, or 10,000$ a week which adds up to 120,000$. Boring isn't it?

3000 subscribers at 40$=120,000$
6000 subscribers at 20$=120,000$
12,000 subscriber at 10$=120,000$

So you see, it is not a profit driven model. It is a content creation model.

If you as a community can self organize and 6000 people want to do this, then its 20$ (for the whole 12 weeks). I'd much rather stuff 20$ in my pockets from 6000 people than 3000! (That's a joke by the way for those of you who lack the irony gene)

It ain't gonna happen for 40$ obviously because the negative vibe in the air just makes it all so icky. And I don't do icky anymore. If 20$ is TOO much for 12 weeks of unique, daily content and the trust isn't there for me to deliver it, then I might as well just focus on the mainstream fan who I know already doesn't give care for 'the art' and get back to the *yawn* grunge...

So that's it. We need 6,000 people who are adventurous enough to take this journey at 20$ or I'll just put it all in a can somewhere and move on. Your feedback is helpful and I thank you.
BC

[brendo]

So this works out at about $10/mo AUD. I'm in, for at least part of the time. What about you guys?

[Josh]

i read that on the train this morning. i like it. i'm in

[sunky]

I was in before, Im in now ... and the best part of this is he has listened to fans. Admitted it wasn't going to work, even though he was surprised and shown that he wants to have a solid relationship with fans ... for $2.50 ish a week for 25mins of content ... that ain't bad.

His example of writing Sunkissed I think was perfect, what is a special moment needs to be watched in a short 5-7min block.

[boelsen]

am i missing one important part.. when is he thinking of doing this? is it september like he mentioned in the last general blog post?

[Josh]

oh i would of paid the other price too

[bonno]

ugh, leak some demos already billy.

[scotopic lux]

I read BC's letter when it arrived last week or whenever it was, And i am in too. I hadn't been up to date with all the going on due to reality creeping into my web time haha, but what he said sounds great. And like Simon said earlier, a CD would be $25 - $30 for less than an hour of music....sounds like we are getting pretty good deal. I think we are just so used to getting stuff for free online now that we kinda feel like its owed to us. Or is that just me?

[Josh]

FREE ACCESS TO ALBUM WRITING SUBSCRIPTION SERVICE FOR NEWSLETTER SUBSCRIBERS
Greetings subscribers to the Online Subscription Model Newsletter.

First off, SmashingPumpkins.com would like to thank you for signing up for this informational newsletter. By just signing up, you have given us helpful information that we can use to help us launch future projects, such as the currently developing New Album Writing Subscription Service. As a reward for joining us in the construction of this project, Billy Corgan has decided to give free access to the material for all those currently signed up for this newsletter.

If you received this message in your email inbox AND have an account registered with this email address on SmashingPumpkins.com, you will have free access granted to the material that will be made available for the paid subscription service.

If you have received this email by signing up for the newsletter only without previously having a SmashingPumpkins.com account, it would advised to make a corresponding account on SmashingPumpkins.com immediately.

Accounts created after the launch of the subscription service will not be guaranteed free access.

New sign-ups for this newsletter past this date will also not be guaranteed free access.

The project is still currently pending. There is a chance that it may not go forward but in the case that it does become a reality, the current newsletter subscribers will indeed receive free access using their SP.com accounts. There is currently no hard launch date for the project.

Continued updates are expected so stay tuned to SmashingPumpkins.com. We appreciate your continued support and patience.

SOOOOO if you haven't subscribed to the newsletter. bad luck. lol. got this in the email overnight.

[brendo]

I don't get it. Who is there who will be signing up to pay for this, who's not already on the newsletter list - and surely this diminishes the cashflow, which makes it harder for him to run it?

[wolfbite]

I think he is going to take a hit on it just to prove a point to all the people that he was refering to in his message where he was upset about people claiming that he was only doing it to make a buck.

[sunkissed]

hahaha @ wolfbite

if that's the case then at least we will be able to say something cool about the pumpkins again for once. Remember the days of bragging about the release of machina 2? I know the "cool" isn't comparable here but it would be nice to say something about the pumpkins that didn't involve defending them!

[brendo]

"New Album Writing Subscription Service". N.A.W.S.S. for short.