|
|
Post by boelsen on Mar 21, 2009 17:27:25 GMT 7
that could be right maybe simon. kinda scary to think about billy writing that about jimmy leaving.
|
|
|
|
Post by wbm001 on Mar 21, 2009 17:31:12 GMT 7
this is so devastating. i'm trying to imagine if i would be more upset if billy had said there'd be no more pumpkins full stop.
it's so weird too, i finally took my JC-signed poster from the last tour for framing today, then i come home to read this news.... gutted
just so grateful that i got to see the man play last year after so many years of wishing for it.
good luck Jimmy, i hope you find happiness beyond the Pumpkins!
|
|
|
|
Post by sunkissed on Mar 21, 2009 20:39:38 GMT 7
Firstly I want to thank Sunky for all his work with ozphoria and the articles over at sp.com and mostly because whenever any big news drops before RSS or anything else I check my emails and Ozphoria is there for what matters. So thanks Sunky, and the rests of the 'mods' for all the work, especially Bree and Sunky for the site. As with everyone else this came as a shock, for the last two months I've been collating a DVD package for a special someone which spans the history of this beloved band, from the marked up until 2008, i've scoured the net and spent months (let alone the years of bootlegging to compile what I believe to be an amazing package of music) and throughout this period my love of the band has almost reached the unfathomable heights of love that I felt for the band when I first heard them, for I needed rock and roll. It taught me to stand up straight, to talk right, to believe in ideals that get thrown to the way side in light of everyday matters. I too, like Sunky, looked at Billy's open letter in retrospect and read into it as if it could say more and I felt for a moment that it was like the machina days, trying to find meaning in Billy's often abstract machina posts. This is an important day, and I am drunk so if my post seems polemic, well, it fuelled by my love for the ideal, for rock and roll. For I would rather pull the motherfucking sword from the stone than stand around and tell you that you can't. The Pumpkins for me will always have Billy at the helm, I've always identified with him. But as wel all know, this incarnation of the Pumpkins relied on the premise that the heART of the pumpkins was within the relationship between Billy and Jimmy. This is once again a time where to be a smashing pumpkins fan is hard. But I believe in Billy, I want to know the circumstances surrounding Jimmy's departure, but at the same time I hold a hope that all the turmoil and all the bullshit that surrounds trying to be a 'smashing pumpkin' will finally be removed and Billy will embrace the change. Because I believe in the smashing pumpkins and that never had anything to do with the members behind it and had everything to do with the heart of rock and roll.
|
|
|
|
Post by brendo on Mar 21, 2009 21:00:14 GMT 7
I wonder if we're not giving Jeff/Ginger/Lisa enough credit here. The "heart" of the pumpkins at the start of the Zeitgeist era was BC + JC, but what if now the band has bonded together enough that the loss of JC doesn't affect the band too much, and that it's now BC + JS + GR + LH?
You know - Jimmy coming in, helping BC get the band off the ground, and if it worked then JC would move on and BC could continue with his new bandmates, or if it didn't work, just dissolve the project altogether? I wonder if this has been the plan all along?
|
|
|
|
Post by explosionsinthesky on Mar 22, 2009 5:48:47 GMT 7
Fuck this, Billy Corgan you are the new Axl Rose.
I swear, this is really fucking up how I feel about this band and Billy Corgan in general.
|
|
|
|
Post by boelsen on Mar 22, 2009 6:33:32 GMT 7
if people braids some long hair and takes 13+ years to release an album, i'll agree to that  |
|
|
|
Post by explosionsinthesky on Mar 22, 2009 7:24:38 GMT 7
if people braids some long hair and takes 13+ years to release an album, i'll agree to that I'm more talking about what a "joke" the whole Smashing Pumpkins thing is becoming. It's like I don't know, you just lose a certain degree of hope and it just disspoints to see the name of one of your favourite bands become one of those kind of bands that just lack that constant driving force line-up wise. I guess now that I've gotten over the whole idea of no Jimmy (last time we had no Jimmy we got Adore, my favourite SP album) I can see that Billy and the SP may become a more NIN or QOTSA type deal, which is okay with me, but then again those bands always had revolving line-up's. It was my initial reaction. I guess I'm just tired of defending Billy to the world. This leaves me with the same dissapointment that Chris Cornell's new album did. Still at least Billy will write good music which will obviously make this nothing like Chris Cornell's latest album. Basically, I'm over it. Bring on the new album. |
|
|
|
Post by Tragic Ether on Mar 22, 2009 7:28:18 GMT 7
i liked Cornell's last album.
but yeah. I think Billy needs to abandon the 'Pumpkins.'
Leave them to what they were.
Start fresh with a fresh name and a fresh attitude.
|
|
|
|
Post by sunky on Mar 22, 2009 7:41:51 GMT 7
To just play this from the other side, why is Billy suddenly the bad guy? Why is it Billy's fault that Jimmy left? We don't know the facts yet, lets not jump the gun. I don't know anymore than anyone else, actually I can say that at this stage only BC / JC know the reason.
I've just finished an article on this for SP.com, should be up later today our time. Yeah it is frustrating things haven't gone how we wanted them too, but this shit happens. Billy can't be a solo artist. When he toured on TFE (and even Zwan) he was still seen as the guy from Smashing Pumpkins. How he writes his music is the sound of the Smashing Pumpkins. The TFE or Zwan albums could have been a Pumpkins record, because the Pumpkins are about different sounds, different styles all coming from the one name.
SP is entering a new era now, one where they are like The Cure, Manson etc ... Billy at the helm. As Brendo said, maybe this was a grand plan perhaps. I really hope we don't see the other three, Ginger, Jeff and Lisa leave too. They've stood on that stage and copped the abuse (and cheers) from the crowds for the past 2 years too. They are important to the future of the band.
What ever Corgan does now, people will be a thousand times more critical of every move he makes, he can't be a solo artist because people will always want him to be the Smashing Pumpkins and now people don't want him to be the Smashing Pumpkins by himself. What can the guy do? He wants the music, Im sure he wants the opportunity to perform his old songs too. Would people be comfortable with him breaking out Mayonaise live if he was performing as a solo artist?
It must of been so hard for him to walk away from that body of work, never to play it again. Its simple to say, walk away and start fresh ... but he just couldn't. Some artists can, and do, but I just don't think Billy could do it.
we are back to the start of 2007 ... we were having this same discussion about what makes this the Smashing Pumpkins and what doesn't 2 years ago.
|
|
|
|
Post by AlmostOz on Mar 22, 2009 8:06:45 GMT 7
I think Jimmy just wanted to make music.
I'm gutted, even more so because my fiance found out through perezhilton.com and told me, rather than me finding out from here.
I wish Jimmy all the best and hope jcc goes well. And i hope we hear some new music from Billy in whatever shape or form.
|
|
|
|
Post by explosionsinthesky on Mar 22, 2009 9:11:40 GMT 7
To just play this from the other side, why is Billy suddenly the bad guy? Why is it Billy's fault that Jimmy left? We don't know the facts yet, lets not jump the gun. I don't know anymore than anyone else, actually I can say that at this stage only BC / JC know the reason. I've just finished an article on this for SP.com, should be up later today our time. Yeah it is frustrating things haven't gone how we wanted them too, but this shit happens. Billy can't be a solo artist. When he toured on TFE (and even Zwan) he was still seen as the guy from Smashing Pumpkins. How he writes his music is the sound of the Smashing Pumpkins. The TFE or Zwan albums could have been a Pumpkins record, because the Pumpkins are about different sounds, different styles all coming from the one name. SP is entering a new era now, one where they are like The Cure, Manson etc ... Billy at the helm. As Brendo said, maybe this was a grand plan perhaps. I really hope we don't see the other three, Ginger, Jeff and Lisa leave too. They've stood on that stage and copped the abuse (and cheers) from the crowds for the past 2 years too. They are important to the future of the band. What ever Corgan does now, people will be a thousand times more critical of every move he makes, he can't be a solo artist because people will always want him to be the Smashing Pumpkins and now people don't want him to be the Smashing Pumpkins by himself. What can the guy do? He wants the music, Im sure he wants the opportunity to perform his old songs too. Would people be comfortable with him breaking out Mayonaise live if he was performing as a solo artist? It must of been so hard for him to walk away from that body of work, never to play it again. Its simple to say, walk away and start fresh ... but he just couldn't. Some artists can, and do, but I just don't think Billy could do it. we are back to the start of 2007 ... we were having this same discussion about what makes this the Smashing Pumpkins and what doesn't 2 years ago. I honestly believe and agree with everything you say. I'm just going through a crisis of faith with the Pumpkins. It's like I want to believe but I just don't know what to believe with Billy anymore. The only comfort I get is thinking, well, yeah, how is Billy any different from Manson, NIN etc with the revolving line-ups? In a rational state of mind that suits me fine and I once again have faith that we'll get some great music. It's just after all that press and BC/JC stuff (which kind of made me a little uncomfortable to begin with) I thought "cool" but yeah, now, it's hard to know what to believe. Anyway, as I keep saying, I just want more music. |
|
|
|
Post by sunky on Mar 22, 2009 9:15:09 GMT 7
I understand, and Im going through a similar 'crisis' I guess. Really asking myself why I love this band? is it still the same reason I fell in love with them all those years ago?
The dust will settle from this and then I hope we see some music from Billy/SP. It is all everybody wants.
|
|
|
|
Post by explosionsinthesky on Mar 22, 2009 9:39:56 GMT 7
I understand, and Im going through a similar 'crisis' I guess. Really asking myself why I love this band? is it still the same reason I fell in love with them all those years ago? The dust will settle from this and then I hope we see some music from Billy/SP. It is all everybody wants. Yeah, it's hard because my favourite bands like "Pearl Jam" and "Sonic Youth" have always managed that solid line-up you know, and they never seem to be apart of this whole re-shaping of there career's they just exist, tour, record and rock the fuck out you know, always changing and improving there craft. When a band starts going the way the pumpkins do, it's easy to lose sight of what you love about them. Anyway lol, I've rambled enough today. It always comes back to the same point, more music Billy please. |
|
|
|
Post by sunky on Mar 22, 2009 9:54:51 GMT 7
I know, I was thinking about Pearl Jam and thinking how solid they've been. Really besides Matt Cameron joining towards the end of the 90's they've been solid since then.
The Pumpkins were always 4 individuals though, it was no secret that James and D'arcy sided with each other on occasions. To be honest I never saw the Billy / Jimmy relationship until the Machina era, maybe that was me growing older as a fan. They were 4 different opinions trying to make it work and it was always going to self destruct. It has now and I think this is it. Its clear they'll never all play music together and it seems they are all done with the Pumpkins. Cept for Billy.
I've rambled too, Im looking back at some of my previous posts and Im sorry if they come across as 'hot headed' I guess this is just an emotional time for us all ... I think we are all feeling the same level of disappointment.
|
|
|
|
Post by explosionsinthesky on Mar 22, 2009 10:10:22 GMT 7
I know, I was thinking about Pearl Jam and thinking how solid they've been. Really besides Matt Cameron joining towards the end of the 90's they've been solid since then. The Pumpkins were always 4 individuals though, it was no secret that James and D'arcy sided with each other on occasions. To be honest I never saw the Billy / Jimmy relationship until the Machina era, maybe that was me growing older as a fan. They were 4 different opinions trying to make it work and it was always going to self destruct. It has now and I think this is it. Its clear they'll never all play music together and it seems they are all done with the Pumpkins. Cept for Billy. I've rambled too, Im looking back at some of my previous posts and Im sorry if they come across as 'hot headed' I guess this is just an emotional time for us all ... I think we are all feeling the same level of disappointment. No man, you came across like an honest diehard fan, nothing wrong with that. Even in the toughest and most confusing times you never abandon your favourite band. Its admirable the dedication you're showing. To quote Eddie Vedder "It's having faith and belief that it's all going to work out okay." |
|
|
|
Post by corkydelocke12 on Mar 22, 2009 10:31:42 GMT 7
This has hit me pretty hard. It was always those two together through thick and thin and now that partnership has ended. Billy has acknowledged how hard the Adore era was for him without Jimmy. How's this going to pan out.
I immediately thought of the part in If All Goes Wrong where Billy is disappointed with being criticised. It was Jimmy who got him through that. Billy obviously gives a shit what other people think, even though he does what he wants, in the end he cares about what the critics say. If whatever he does next Fucks up in terms of commercial viability or is negatively reviewed, i don't know how he'll deal with it. The pressure is on and it has never been like this before.
|
|
|
|
Post by Steve on Mar 22, 2009 12:16:23 GMT 7
I'm not sure what to think, I'm not totally gutted, I don't know what that means. I guess i'm seeing it as a realistic 23 year old rather than letting emotion get in the way as i might have in 2000 or so as a youngster.
I would have loved to hear the new album with JC because i feel they would have hit back with something much more lasting than Zeitgeist. It's something i've thought about for a year.
Time will tell what happens. For now, i wait.
|
|
|
|
Post by sunky on Mar 22, 2009 12:59:54 GMT 7
So very true Steve, the next album I saw as their 'Siamese Dream' the real make or break. It is still that record, but it is soley up to Billy these days. And to add 'fuel to the discussion fire' Linda Strawberry updated her twitter with this: since i keep getting asked about jimmy leaving sp i just think that everyone has to go do what makes them happy. life is so short. twitter.com/lindastrawberry/statuses/1368670699Added to that ... seems like things are happening at the JCC: jimmychamberlincomplex.com/blog/This blog just appeared, with new artwork etc ... Im really starting to think that Jimmy's heart just wasn't in the Pumpkins anymore. (ok ok, not getting ahead of myself) |
|
|
|
Post by thewhiterabbit on Mar 22, 2009 14:44:24 GMT 7
Wow. What awful news. Well, I guess that seems pretty selfish, Jimmy's family and health are the most important things of course, but still...
I'm so glad I got to see the band last year. Thanks for the news Sunky. I really should post here more often.
I wonder if anything new/unreleased Jimmy was involved with will be released, or if Billy's just going to start fresh?
|
|
|
|
Post by zerorawk on Mar 22, 2009 16:58:36 GMT 7
I first read that JC had left the Smashing Pumpkins a few days ago on their official MySpace. My initial reaction, like many others, was that of complete shock. I just couldn't believe it. It was completely out of left field. Never did I expect to sign into MySpace and learn that out of the two "original" members of SP had now left the band... and for the second time too. Third if you count their first break-up. But the thing was... I wasn't sad. I wasn't disappointed. I wasn't anything of the sort. Because I kept in mind that whatever reason Jimmy had for leaving the band could only be a very important one. My likely guess is health concerns. Let's face it, Jimmy is very lucky to be alive after everything he'd put in his system over the years and it's definitely taken its toll on his health. I'm guessing that he just isn't able to keep up with the demanding touring schedule, Billy's perfectionism (not taking a shot a Billy there... just stating a fact. i've got nothing but admiration for the guy. after all, its his music that has helped me to further understand the world around me) and the hardcore drumming of the songs (if that makes sense). Obviously he wants to keep going with music, but on a smaller scale than SP. I'm sure if Jimmy could keep going with SP he most definitely would. But if he can accept that he just can't do it anymore, I'm sure we can as well. Now about Billy continuing on without JC. It's happened before, it can happen again. The Smashing Pumpkins name has and always will be associated with William Patrick Corgan. Even when he was on his own or with Zwan... Billy was still the "Guy from Smashing Pumpkins". His bald head, his nasally voice, layers of distorted guitar, "ZERO" t-shirt and trademark nihilism (not really calling him a nihilist, just laughing along with him) are all associated with the Smashing Pumpkins as much as they are associated with Billy himself. I know I'm just a young fan, I know I haven't been with the band as long as most of you have and I know I haven't been the most active member of this community... but I just wanted to put my opinion out there and there's no other place I'd want to do just that than Ozphoria. Thanks for being. - zerorawk  |
|
|
|
Post by Tragic Ether on Mar 22, 2009 18:46:15 GMT 7
i feel like we are all sitting round comforting each other like a good friend died.
its weird.
good to see the jimmy love out there though.
JCX will be back no doubt and we'll all be celebrating that soon enough. Hold in there guys!
|
|
wolfbite
zero
Please don't feed the animals
Posts: 113
|
Post by wolfbite on Mar 23, 2009 5:41:44 GMT 7
OK, here is my thoughts.
Maybe being in the band was to expensive for him.
He is a family man, wife and kids. Wasn't in the band for a lot of the MCIS tour, wasn't around for Adore. Therefore his pockets would be significantly lighter then what Billy's would be given that Billy has also had money from projects such as the Stigmata and Ransom sountracks among others.
They have lost money a few projects since the reunion and album sales haven't exactly set the world on fire. Maybe it all just became to expensive and the 20th anniversary tour was just a way to reload the bank account before he retires to what would be a less expensive project being the JCC.
Thoughts?
|
|
|
|
Post by sunky on Mar 23, 2009 6:18:09 GMT 7
Good points. This would also tie into Billy's recent visit to Washington where he said something along the lines of "older artists being forced out onto the road to build for their retirement". I doubt Jimmy would have received much money from the radio revenue as he was never classed as a song writer, however Im sure there is some agreement between him and BC to receive something. I think your theory could be one of many things. Perhaps this isn't one issue, perhaps it is a number of little things. ... now to lighten the mood a little. This is how is went down. (Disclaimer: not really, this is a joke) BC: So lets start the new record  JC: I have to tell you something … Im leaving the band. BC: BWHAHAHAHAHA!  JC: No Seriously … BC: Ohhh … *silence*  |
|
|
|
Post by boelsen on Mar 23, 2009 6:29:26 GMT 7
you're a classy man simon  |
|
|
|
Post by Steve on Mar 23, 2009 7:23:13 GMT 7
Hehe nice work...if you look closely, you could also mistake that second pic as Bill having a hernia or getting skin failure or something
|
|
|
|
Post by sunky on Mar 23, 2009 8:28:47 GMT 7
Found this old interview from this time last year: www.mojvideo.com/video-smashing-pumpkins-interview/181cc029e18ab29a5363Billy talks about the "next smashing pumpkins album" its what he has said before, about releasing the album over the course of a year or more. He talks about it being a more open process, with guest artists etc ... it sounds like a huge idea that I think Corgan still wants to do. Could this Jimmy just thought ... nope. Not for me? |
|
|
|
Post by sunkissed on Mar 23, 2009 10:07:46 GMT 7
Lovin' the speculation; I was thinking earlier about the "era" shows at smaller clubs that Billy referred to earlier in the year and whether they would still be on the cards now with Jimmy gone. On a side note, am I the only who is repulsed by the negative reaction toward Billy for Jimmy's departure? They make it out like Jimmy has no mind of his own.
As for the "next smashing pumpkins album" I fear what Wolfbite said may come true, my hopes however lie in something more "arty" or even just the beautiful acoustic/minimalist piano stuff he did ala The Hideout - songs like "Song for Judy" and "I Held a Rose" "Consumed" etc...
TFE#2 won't happen again I don't think because it seemed to me that Billy took the sales reactions to heart. I also think that it really affected how he saw the popularity/success of his records in relation to marketing, which is why he wants a hand in the marketing side these days.
By the way, that photo montage fucked with me, made me really sad.
And as far as the use of the name "The Smashing Pumpkins" goes, I'm with Billy on that one re: the Chicago Press advert he took out on the day of the release of TFE, where he said that the TFE "{...}picks up the thread of the as-yet-unfinished work and charter of The Smashing Pumpkins.." which is to say that even back in 05 he was claiming that the work he does with that kind of attitude is the smashing pumpkins. So for me, if he is writing music from that place then it makes sense to continue calling it the smashing pumpkins.
|
|
|
|
Post by sunky on Mar 23, 2009 11:13:54 GMT 7
You've got some good points there Michael, Im at work at the moment will continue those ideas tonight. Also to make mention, my article on this went on SP.com: www.smashingpumpkins.com/pages/articles/dawn-new-eraThis was written only a few hours after I heard the news, it really sums up how I am still feeling. |
|
wolfbite
zero
Please don't feed the animals
Posts: 113
|
Post by wolfbite on Mar 23, 2009 14:51:07 GMT 7
does anyone know if they ended up building the new studio together? if they did then I think it tells us that this was a more then likely a hastily made decision, if not then maybe it is one that has been coming for a while and possibly backs up my theroy on the cost of being in the band being part of the reason that jimmy left, studios aren't cheap.
|
|
|
|
Post by boelsen on Mar 23, 2009 15:28:06 GMT 7
you'd think they'd have thought it through a lot before announcing they were gonna build a studio.. so i'd guess it was more of a hastily made decision.
|
|
