|
Post by AlmostOz on Mar 23, 2009 15:44:53 GMT 7
I was sad yesterday. Now I just want to hear music. Non commercial glow, fol music. Theres too much talk and not much music lately.
|
|
|
Post by the viper on Mar 23, 2009 18:06:55 GMT 7
I first read that JC had left the Smashing Pumpkins a few days ago on their official MySpace. My initial reaction, like many others, was that of complete shock. I just couldn't believe it. It was completely out of left field. Never did I expect to sign into MySpace and learn that out of the two "original" members of SP had now left the band... and for the second time too. Third if you count their first break-up. But the thing was... I wasn't sad. I wasn't disappointed. I wasn't anything of the sort. Because I kept in mind that whatever reason Jimmy had for leaving the band could only be a very important one. My likely guess is health concerns. Let's face it, Jimmy is very lucky to be alive after everything he'd put in his system over the years and it's definitely taken its toll on his health. I'm guessing that he just isn't able to keep up with the demanding touring schedule, Billy's perfectionism (not taking a shot a Billy there... just stating a fact. i've got nothing but admiration for the guy. after all, its his music that has helped me to further understand the world around me) and the hardcore drumming of the songs (if that makes sense). Obviously he wants to keep going with music, but on a smaller scale than SP. I'm sure if Jimmy could keep going with SP he most definitely would. But if he can accept that he just can't do it anymore, I'm sure we can as well. Now about Billy continuing on without JC. It's happened before, it can happen again. The Smashing Pumpkins name has and always will be associated with William Patrick Corgan. Even when he was on his own or with Zwan... Billy was still the "Guy from Smashing Pumpkins". His bald head, his nasally voice, layers of distorted guitar, "ZERO" t-shirt and trademark nihilism (not really calling him a nihilist, just laughing along with him) are all associated with the Smashing Pumpkins as much as they are associated with Billy himself. I know I'm just a young fan, I know I haven't been with the band as long as most of you have and I know I haven't been the most active member of this community... but I just wanted to put my opinion out there and there's no other place I'd want to do just that than Ozphoria. Thanks for being. - zerorawk Very well said.
|
|
|
Post by sunkissed on Mar 23, 2009 19:07:37 GMT 7
After reading the latest hipsters united post hipstersunited.com/blog/archives/2009/03/era-as-annoying-a-word-as-epic.html It got me thinking about the kind of reaction we've seen over at the o-board over Jimmy's departure. A user on Hipsters "Rat in a Cage" made a good point when he said "That post {The official Jimmy's departure post...} is not just “robotic” but downright insulting. Jimmy’s departure is a complete breakdown of everything in regards to the band. The site should stop, literally. Just stop. Force some answers. You don’t just follow it up with “Kerry Brown speaks at USC ” because if I actually care to follow the band, “Kerry Brown speaks at USC” is absolute trash news at the moment. Fuck Kerry Brown and fuck his speech - that has no direct bearing on my life. That everyone running the site is just carrying on is bullshit to me." Too much talk, Yes. Lack of music of late? No. I think this is insulting to a band that has pretty much given us something newsworthy every week basically since the reunion. You'd imagine that there'd be an official explanation to the departure by now, but nothing! Not to mention that the initial "News" from the band about Jimmy leaving changed dramatically with the re-posting an hour after the first one. It's all so damn strange and I don't understand it. Billy is usually so fond of sentimentalising these moments, this time nothing? Edit: If you happened to have read the now deleted part I wrote about the Hipsters United article referring to Sunky's article just ignore it, lol. It's all good.
|
|
|
Post by zerorawk on Mar 23, 2009 19:34:04 GMT 7
I first read that JC had left the Smashing Pumpkins a few days ago on their official MySpace. My initial reaction, like many others, was that of complete shock. I just couldn't believe it. It was completely out of left field. Never did I expect to sign into MySpace and learn that out of the two "original" members of SP had now left the band... and for the second time too. Third if you count their first break-up. But the thing was... I wasn't sad. I wasn't disappointed. I wasn't anything of the sort. Because I kept in mind that whatever reason Jimmy had for leaving the band could only be a very important one. My likely guess is health concerns. Let's face it, Jimmy is very lucky to be alive after everything he'd put in his system over the years and it's definitely taken its toll on his health. I'm guessing that he just isn't able to keep up with the demanding touring schedule, Billy's perfectionism (not taking a shot a Billy there... just stating a fact. i've got nothing but admiration for the guy. after all, its his music that has helped me to further understand the world around me) and the hardcore drumming of the songs (if that makes sense). Obviously he wants to keep going with music, but on a smaller scale than SP. I'm sure if Jimmy could keep going with SP he most definitely would. But if he can accept that he just can't do it anymore, I'm sure we can as well. Now about Billy continuing on without JC. It's happened before, it can happen again. The Smashing Pumpkins name has and always will be associated with William Patrick Corgan. Even when he was on his own or with Zwan... Billy was still the "Guy from Smashing Pumpkins". His bald head, his nasally voice, layers of distorted guitar, "ZERO" t-shirt and trademark nihilism (not really calling him a nihilist, just laughing along with him) are all associated with the Smashing Pumpkins as much as they are associated with Billy himself. I know I'm just a young fan, I know I haven't been with the band as long as most of you have and I know I haven't been the most active member of this community... but I just wanted to put my opinion out there and there's no other place I'd want to do just that than Ozphoria. Thanks for being. - zerorawk Very well said. Thanks Vipes. Very much appreciated. Just finished reading Sunky's article over at SP.com and I reckon I can say the same thing about that article that Viper just said of my post and I agree 100% with what Sunky has said. I don't believe in the Smashing Pumpkins... I don't believe in the music... I believe in Billy fucking Corgan. Because believing in Billy is enough to make the music happen. Because believing in Billy is believing in the Smashing fucking Pumpkins. Now... looking back on all of the SP songs I've listened to over the past 2-ish years, I realise now that the Smashing Pumpkins is, was and always be Billy Corgan. No offense to the other band members, because they also contributed to the sound and image of the Pumpkins... but at that basic level Billy Corgan is the Smashing Pumpkins. It's Billy that makes the music happen and the band brings the music to life. Right-o. I think that's enough sentimentality from me for now. I've gotta go sleepy time now. Listening to Thirty-Three "And you will make it last forever" I have a feeling Billy could be referring to himself there. FUCK! Bed now. Before I start writing a huge post on this over at MySpace... then we'd all be fucked. Night! - zerorawk
|
|
|
Post by sunky on Mar 23, 2009 19:46:02 GMT 7
Didn't read the comment, hehe, but what needs to be said is that with writing that article I knew the big guy had to approve it before it went live. So as much as I would like to write a "fan plea" or an emotional article about how much this fucking sucks ... I knew what I needed to write, still from my heart and my view, but in a subtle way. SP.com can't just put up whatever they want, they don't have the same freedom us fan sites have. Post like that make SP.com look like a joke, when they (HU) know and know that they aren't allowed the freedom to make a "plea" like that. They are employee's of the band, would you say to your boss "So I think you should tell all the staff why you and your wife are getting a divorce?" ... (that it directed at the commenters complaining about SP.com, not HU)
After reading the article on HU and countless posts on SP.com, I don't think the "pain" we share is anywhere near what Billy and Jimmy are sharing. This isn't our lives, this isn't our career, this isn't our friendship of a close friend of 21 years. This is a band we like, the comparisons are totally different. This is like if my marriage ended, not if a good friend at work left after some great years working together. How can "we" as fans sit here going "please tell us!" ... it isn't going to make it any better, could even make it worse.
We don't know the reasons, we don't know how serious the reason for the departure is ... it may not even be music related. Has anybody even thought it could be something serious to do with his family? Could be why it has come out of the blue? Respect the time that is needed on this. The 'stock standard' response could have been from management and not SP ... as maybe they don't know how to explain it yet.
I agree we do need to hear from the band, even if it just Jimmy saying farewell ... Give the guys some time, live your life while you wait.
This isnt a go at you Michael, mainly the tone on post like that at HU or from a lot of the posts at the oboard ... people demanding answers. We aren't owed anything, yes they have spoken about having an open relationship with fans ... but c'mon, this is a bit different than 'we've got this new song coming out' ... We'll get answers when we get them, for now, chill and decide what the future means to you.
|
|
|
Post by brendo on Mar 23, 2009 21:10:13 GMT 7
So wait - BC reads and approves every post to go up on SP.com?
|
|
|
Post by sunky on Mar 24, 2009 4:29:12 GMT 7
No not every post, he's got better things to do, but just subjects like this he will read over before it goes live. I am technically an employee, so it's just my boss making sure he is comfortable with what goes up.
|
|
|
Post by siamese on Mar 24, 2009 8:28:58 GMT 7
just got the email from Sunky - have been busy at work and didnt check the boards........holy crap aye
Wow, dont really know what to say. If its for health or family reasons, fair enough. If its cos of Billy I am gutted.
|
|
|
Post by sunky on Mar 24, 2009 21:07:17 GMT 7
Jimmy speaks: jimmychamberlincomplex.com/blog/"By now you have heard the news of my departure from the Smashing Pumpkins. I will say, without going into any unnecessary details that this represents a positive move forward for me. I can no longer commit all of my energy into something that I don’t fully possess. I won’t pretend I’m into something I’m not. I won’t do it to myself, you the fan, or my former partner. I can’t just, “Cash the check” so to speak. Music is my life. It is sacred. It deserves the highest commitment at every level and the Pumpkins are certainly no different. I’m sorry but it really IS that simple. There is no drama, bad blood, or anything else but a full commitment to music. My best goes out to Billy and I’m glad he has chosen to continue under the name. It is his right. I will continue to make music with the Jimmy Chamberlin Complex as well as pursuing other musical interests. I feel that I have a long way to go and a lot to give. Thanks to everyone for your kind words and support through all of this. I am constantly humbled by all of you! It is an honor and a privilege to play music for a living and I don’t take it for granted not even for a second. Stay tuned……. JC"
|
|
|
Post by cleanwhitesheets on Mar 24, 2009 21:16:48 GMT 7
i'm happy that jimmy feels this is a positive thing for him
|
|
|
Post by sunky on Mar 24, 2009 21:18:53 GMT 7
Totally, I think it covers what some of us thought. His heart wasn't where it should be for the Pumpkins to continue. Better to leave now, rather than half way through a project. Hopefully this settles everything down.
|
|
|
Post by cleanwhitesheets on Mar 24, 2009 21:34:59 GMT 7
i totally respect his decision - i can't think of anything worse than compromising your integrity by doing something you don't wholly believe in. it must've been an incredibly hard decision to execute, because it influences so many others despite it being a personal thing.
|
|
|
Post by explosionsinthesky on Mar 25, 2009 4:50:55 GMT 7
i totally respect his decision - i can't think of anything worse than compromising your integrity by doing something you don't wholly believe in. it must've been an incredibly hard decision to execute, because it influences so many others despite it being a personal thing. This is how I feel as well. I look forward to hearing what both parties release. When I read Jimmy's post I was reminded of something he said in the recent DVD they released. The part where he says how he doesn't want to be comfortable with his Art, how art is meant to make people feel uncomfortable. This is something I've always believed and I hope that he continues to push that theory with JCC. For some reason, all I've been able to listen to in the past three days is "Adore" perhaps wishful thinking on my part, but would love to see Billy explore that realm again. Still as one of my favourite artists I just have to believe that Billy will make the music that is right to his evolution and I'm happy to embrace that.
|
|
|
Post by sunky on Mar 25, 2009 6:22:59 GMT 7
Im glad Im not the only one that has been listening to Adore, I also put on quite a bit of the Zwan stuff of just Billy ... its like I needed to justify to myself - he can do it.
Im loving (in a sarcastic way) how the people on the o-board are taking Jimmy's "cash the check" statement as a "he didn't want to sell out with Billy" ... even though he has nothing but kind words to say about Billy in statement.
The most important thing from this post is he gave Billy to best wishes to continue as Smashing Pumpkins. That will be the hot topic for the coming months, he does derserve it. He was the face of the band that faced all the crap when albums didn't perform, drug issues etc he did 99% of the interviews and had to front that public scrutiny as Smashing Pumpkins so he should continue as the idea that started the band.
|
|
|
Post by explosionsinthesky on Mar 25, 2009 6:57:42 GMT 7
Im glad Im not the only one that has been listening to Adore, I also put on quite a bit of the Zwan stuff of just Billy ... its like I needed to justify to myself - he can do it. Im loving (in a sarcastic way) how the people on the o-board are taking Jimmy's "cash the check" statement as a "he didn't want to sell out with Billy" ... even though he has nothing but kind words to say about Billy in statement. The most important thing from this post is he gave Billy to best wishes to continue as Smashing Pumpkins. That will be the hot topic for the coming months, he does derserve it. He was the face of the band that faced all the crap when albums didn't perform, drug issues etc he did 99% of the interviews and had to front that public scrutiny as Smashing Pumpkins so he should continue as the idea that started the band. I'm just hoping that Billy gives us a more "internal" kind of record, the way "Adore" was. I think people will read too much into the whole "cash the cheque" thing, but it's just a nice way of saying "I want to quit my day job" really, I mean that's how I see it. Jimmy shaped the songs with the way he played the drums, but all the ideas lyrically and musically (as in the core written song) came from Billy, so I can see how you'd want to leave and pursue your own creative desires. Just glad to read that there is no bad blood. Listening to "NIN," "The Cure" and the "Adore" album have helped me realise how this change will be a positive one. As I said previsouly (jimmy's words) I don't want to feel comfortable. The idea of the band always just now being Billy and Jimmy was a comforting thought, but now, well this can really change things. For better or worse, who knows. Perhaps the release of "GLOW" and "FOL" have been a way to just squeeze the last remains (song wise) out of the "BC/JC" period. Who knows, that is just me thinking. And now we must wait.
|
|
|
Post by corkydelocke12 on Mar 25, 2009 11:54:53 GMT 7
I'm glad Jimmy's come out with this statement. It just shows what class act the man is. I know i'm going to miss the way jimmy plays with the pumpkins but I also know that this would have been one of the toughest decisions for him to make and it wouldn't be fair for him to continue if it wasn't in his heart. It's less clear now as to what direction the pumpkins will go in but i know with Billy at the helm, it'll be magic. I liked how Jimmy said that it is Billy's 'right.' Who is anyone to say who or what the Smashing Pumpkins are besides Billy, he has been the only constant and now, always will be. I look forward to hearing what both do next.
|
|
|
Post by closer on Mar 25, 2009 13:41:22 GMT 7
The future is looking bright!
|
|
|
Post by boelsen on Mar 25, 2009 14:00:23 GMT 7
i had to laugh a little reading the ozphoria email with the JC statement, how as fans we were looking for a bigger reason behind his departure, when in the end his heart wasnt into it anymore.
|
|
wak
ghost child
If you're giving in then you're giving up...
Posts: 37
|
Post by wak on Mar 25, 2009 15:14:26 GMT 7
Seriously people, read between the lines and stop glossing over everything (as you all usually do regarding BC).
JC has left. Suddenly.
There is a blurb on SP.com stating the fact. But that is it. Nothing from Billy. Nothing from anyone. Nothing from JC to the fans. Nothing emotional. Just a factual 'JC has left' statement.
Nothing is heard for days. Tempers cooling? It could even have been that JC left quite a while ago, and only just decided that he had made the right decision. Maybe BC had given him time to reconsider? If not then this perpetuates the 'suddeness' of the whole thing.
A statement from JC is made. NOT on SP.com, but on his own blog. That in itself 'smells' of bad blood.
Oh, but wait! JC says there is no bad blood, nor drama, 'or anything else but a full commitment to music' that is the reason behind it all. C'mon, of course he's going to say that. Why send out bad PR now that he's leaving and going out in to the big bad world as it whee.
And then there's this, all in the same puff of breath: "I can no longer commit all of my energy into something that I don’t fully possess. I won’t pretend I’m into something I’m not. I won’t do it to myself, you the fan, or my former partner. I can’t just, “Cash the check” so to speak. Music is my life. It is sacred."
Can't commit to something he doesn't believe in, that he wont pretend, that he wont live a lie, nor do it simply to 'cash the check (sic)' ... all in the same breath, remember. And then the wallop - music is his life and it is sacred. So, holding music as sacred, and that it is his life, and not wanting to do the SP because he's not about 'pretending' nor cashing cheques.
As much as this hurts me to say, being the realist, but the signs have been there all along... He left because BC is selling out, and JC don't like it anymore, and enough is enough!
Since reforming - Two tunes in blockbuster movies, countless releases of the same album through different avenues with 'bonus tracks' to perhaps entice the purchase of multiple copies (why fucking else, huh?), commercials, concerts where BC pisses off the fans because they like the 'old stuff' better (and perhaps contributed to lower than expected Zeitgeist sales), BC whinging that 'fans' simply listen to specific tracks and skip others (leading to 'fans' simply purchasing 'singles' and not albums), BC making court appearances to defend the 'artists' rights to more money from their music, very over-priced live recordings of the latest tour.
How long do you think JC would put up with BC's disrespect towards people?
Yes, JC's heart may not be in it anymore, clearly evident in the lack of words he uses to dwell on how much the SP means to him, how he had the best times, how it has hurt him so much to move on and leave.
As JC stated: "I will say, without going into any unnecessary details that this represents a positive move forward for me." Meaning that what he is movng from was the negative.
Read between the lines people.
The money is obviously not coming with honey anymore.
|
|
|
Post by catdemogogery on Mar 25, 2009 15:42:42 GMT 7
well thats pretty F'd. i dont understand how Jimmy can have such a change of heart towards somthing as great as SP. i for one expected more from him. after all the zeitgeist interveiws the BC/JC team sounded fully commited.
|
|
|
Post by gavvvvvin on Mar 25, 2009 16:11:55 GMT 7
You expected more from Jimmy? I'm pretty sure Jimmy (and everyone else) expected more from Billy. Music which was average at best, poor sales, Corgans ever increasing erratic behaviour and money mongering ways...I dont particulary see any reason for him not to leave. And I'm sure its not easy just to turn your back on 20 years of success and memories.
Wak hit the naail right on the head, you guys need to read between the lines...Jimmys just jumping off the sinking Pumpkin ship.
|
|
|
Post by AlmostOz on Mar 25, 2009 16:25:04 GMT 7
The pumpkins ship has always had holes, But it just never seems to sink. It's just all part of being in the pumpkins circus.
I just hope Billy's heart is still in it. Regardless of the reason, they were partners and it must feel terrible to have your sounding board etc leaving. This could spell the end of the pumpkins 2 if the next recordings aren't that great.
|
|
pete
cherub rocker
Posts: 86
|
Post by pete on Mar 26, 2009 5:13:47 GMT 7
Interesting times
|
|
Luke
zero
To disappear takes so much time
Posts: 233
|
Post by Luke on Mar 26, 2009 6:56:50 GMT 7
Perhaps this was all a grand plan by jimmy (getting back with the pumpkins and then leaving) to get Publicity for JCC??
Just a thought.
Why does Billy always seemed to get hammered.
|
|
|
Post by PaRkA on Mar 26, 2009 7:39:36 GMT 7
Seriously people, read between the lines and stop glossing over everything (as you all usually do regarding BC). JC has left. Suddenly. There is a blurb on SP.com stating the fact. But that is it. Nothing from Billy. Nothing from anyone. Nothing from JC to the fans. Nothing emotional. Just a factual 'JC has left' statement. Nothing is heard for days. Tempers cooling? It could even have been that JC left quite a while ago, and only just decided that he had made the right decision. Maybe BC had given him time to reconsider? If not then this perpetuates the 'suddeness' of the whole thing. A statement from JC is made. NOT on SP.com, but on his own blog. That in itself 'smells' of bad blood. Oh, but wait! JC says there is no bad blood, nor drama, 'or anything else but a full commitment to music' that is the reason behind it all. C'mon, of course he's going to say that. Why send out bad PR now that he's leaving and going out in to the big bad world as it whee. And then there's this, all in the same puff of breath: "I can no longer commit all of my energy into something that I don’t fully possess. I won’t pretend I’m into something I’m not. I won’t do it to myself, you the fan, or my former partner. I can’t just, “Cash the check” so to speak. Music is my life. It is sacred." Can't commit to something he doesn't believe in, that he wont pretend, that he wont live a lie, nor do it simply to 'cash the check (sic)' ... all in the same breath, remember. And then the wallop - music is his life and it is sacred. So, holding music as sacred, and that it is his life, and not wanting to do the SP because he's not about 'pretending' nor cashing cheques. As much as this hurts me to say, being the realist, but the signs have been there all along... He left because BC is selling out, and JC don't like it anymore, and enough is enough! Since reforming - Two tunes in blockbuster movies, countless releases of the same album through different avenues with 'bonus tracks' to perhaps entice the purchase of multiple copies (why fucking else, huh?), commercials, concerts where BC pisses off the fans because they like the 'old stuff' better (and perhaps contributed to lower than expected Zeitgeist sales), BC whinging that 'fans' simply listen to specific tracks and skip others (leading to 'fans' simply purchasing 'singles' and not albums), BC making court appearances to defend the 'artists' rights to more money from their music, very over-priced live recordings of the latest tour. How long do you think JC would put up with BC's disrespect towards people? Yes, JC's heart may not be in it anymore, clearly evident in the lack of words he uses to dwell on how much the SP means to him, how he had the best times, how it has hurt him so much to move on and leave. As JC stated: "I will say, without going into any unnecessary details that this represents a positive move forward for me." Meaning that what he is movng from was the negative. Read between the lines people. The money is obviously not coming with honey anymore. as much as i cant believe im going to say this but i was going to say the exact same thing (maybe worded a little differently). i just think the pumpkins direction isnt totally for music anymore, its a fucked feeling to know that a band that brought you up more than your parents did has suddenly contracted dementia and is flailing, i just cant help but think that billy is milking the "sp" badge for everything its worth, while he still can.... its confusing i still claim them as my favourite all time band but im starting to be cautious now of whats happening and whats been happening, jimmy leaving because he's worried about damaging the music! thats spells trouble with a capitol $ (dollar sign) im sure the decision has hurt jimmy emensley as too billy and maybe its the kick in the guts that billy needs to get back on the straight and narrow, but its plain and simple... jimmy unlike billy isnt here for the money, and im guessing jimmy would have spoken to billy at length about their direction, and most likely couldnt turn him around, hence he feels no choice but to leave. i dont want to sound like a nay-sayer but im not stupid and in reading jimmys blog, which if he had left on better terms im sure would have been longer and included a bit more passion towards the band and what it has acheived, he is pissed, and quite frankly is probably glad to be out. sorry for the length but its been bugging me for awhile now. edit - nothing from billy yet in reply or explaination.
|
|
|
Post by sunky on Mar 26, 2009 8:37:15 GMT 7
I hear what you guys are saying about this situation and Im not going to disagree, because they are your opinions and what you are taking from what Jimmy wrote. Anything can be interpreted in so many various ways.
Time between the announcement to Jimmy's post on his blog.
Jimmy has control over his blog, he doesn't have control over SP.com. What I mean by that is updates to SP.com have to go through their webmaster (SPMM) as far as I can gather, Jimmy's site is his. He is in control of it. Perhaps he felt he needed to start his announcement away from SP.com, perhaps he was 'in the moment' when he wanted to write it and just wanted it up and done with. What Im trying to get to is, we don't know the full story, what we 'read between' the lines can be a number of things. Im not saying my reasoning is correct, and that yours is wrong, its just - we don't know.
Looking from the outside in, is totally different from the inside. With anything, friendship, marriage, work ... any relationship.
This also goes with statements like "jimmy unlike billy isnt here for the money" ... how can we make a comment like that, do we know Billy is "in it for the money". When did become gene simmons and say "Im here for the money". The VISA commericial could have been the one last cash up so it can build the studio he needs, build the promotion, hire the people he needs to begin the next era of the Smashing Pumpkins. No label = no funding. This is a fucking huge risk, if the Pumpkins / his solo career dies in the ass ... so does his life.
Im not saying the guy doesn't have money, but what else is he meant to do. He went solo and everybody kept saying "Get the Pumpkins get back together!" ... so he did, as best as he could. James, D'Arcy didn't want to be back so they forged on. Now we are here. Perhaps Jimmy just didn't want the negativity that is around the Pumpkins. The negativity from fans saying "You're not what we remember! We want that band" ... JCC has nothing to live up to, they have one good record and thats it. He can do a 1hr jazz record next and people would go, thats cool. Thats jimmy. Billy went solo and went to "his" goth pop roots with keys and beats and people slam the "Thats not the Smashing Pumpkins - its not rock - you suck!" (not everybody, but most) ... this is what Im trying to get at, what can Billy do that would make everybody happy? He can't get the Smashing Pumpkins (original) back together, he can't go solo without being compared to the Pumpkins sound (which is ironic as it is an idea to be a diverse sound) ... music is all he knows. The guy needs to make a living.
Im not happy with how this went down, yet again a bad management of a relationship with fans has happened. This could have been clear with a statement from both parties, or even god forbid a short video to show "everything is cool". Im with you all on that. This is a balls up, goes with Corgans "Adore is a techno" record etc ... he has a history of making statements thinking people are "in on the know". When he leaves people in the dark. However, is it solely Billy's fault? Why couldn't have Jimmy made this statement first up. The blame can't be in one direction.
As for not hearing from Billy, this is pretty harsh still ... I could 'read between the lines' and say Im sure he is thinking of the best way to word it and when to approach it best ... because every word of what he says next will be scrutinized. The next song he records/releases will be too.
As I mentioned the emotions are running high at the moment, because people are having to ask themselves ... will I continue with this band or is it a "thanks for the music so far, I'll see you every now and then". This band got us all through some tough times in our lives, but this band is no longer the band we once knew.
What needs to happen is BC needs to make a statement, and quit. Explain his plans and fucking stick to them. Release some songs, even if its just acoustic stuff ... as long as it is heartfelt.
... and this isn't me glossing over everything Billy does, that is just plain offensive to imply I have no brain to make honest judgements on Billy's decisions. This is me accepting this what has happened, how it happened doesn't bother me (thats me) its not going to change anything. I know this isn't how everybody is, but with the Pumpkins (or any band) or in my life I try to not dwell on the why. (yeah yeah, hippie mentality I know - peace and love man - groooovy)
|
|
|
Post by PaRkA on Mar 26, 2009 9:01:51 GMT 7
i completely understand what your saying sunks, you know me i wouldnt say this if it wasnt apparent, like you said its being handled with a lot of hush, and thats not very reassuring, and i wish i didnt feel the way i do, but its so sudden, such a quick almost a rash decision it seems, out of nowhere all of a sudden jimmy doesnt want to be a pumpkin anymore after trying so hard and doing all the neccessary work to get them back together again to just leave like that.... its just not cricket.
i just feel the longer billy waits to explain, or at least until the truth is known especially if its not good the more damage it is going to do to the band.
i said before and ill say it again even if im wrong with my assumptions something happened and it wasnt good.
the whole thing just stinks.
|
|
|
Post by explosionsinthesky on Mar 26, 2009 9:10:21 GMT 7
I hear what you guys are saying about this situation and Im not going to disagree, because they are your opinions and what you are taking from what Jimmy wrote. Anything can be interpreted in so many various ways. Time between the announcement to Jimmy's post on his blog. Jimmy has control over his blog, he doesn't have control over SP.com. What I mean by that is updates to SP.com have to go through their webmaster (SPMM) as far as I can gather, Jimmy's site is his. He is in control of it. Perhaps he felt he needed to start his announcement away from SP.com, perhaps he was 'in the moment' when he wanted to write it and just wanted it up and done with. What Im trying to get to is, we don't know the full story, what we 'read between' the lines can be a number of things. Im not saying my reasoning is correct, and that yours is wrong, its just - we don't know. Looking from the outside in, is totally different from the inside. With anything, friendship, marriage, work ... any relationship. This also goes with statements like "jimmy unlike billy isnt here for the money" ... how can we make a comment like that, do we know Billy is "in it for the money". When did become gene simmons and say "Im here for the money". The VISA commericial could have been the one last cash up so it can build the studio he needs, build the promotion, hire the people he needs to begin the next era of the Smashing Pumpkins. No label = no funding. This is a fucking huge risk, if the Pumpkins / his solo career dies in the ass ... so does his life. Im not saying the guy doesn't have money, but what else is he meant to do. He went solo and everybody kept saying "Get the Pumpkins get back together!" ... so he did, as best as he could. James, D'Arcy didn't want to be back so they forged on. Now we are here. Perhaps Jimmy just didn't want the negativity that is around the Pumpkins. The negativity from fans saying "You're not what we remember! We want that band" ... JCC has nothing to live up to, they have one good record and thats it. He can do a 1hr jazz record next and people would go, thats cool. Thats jimmy. Billy went solo and went to "his" goth pop roots with keys and beats and people slam the "Thats not the Smashing Pumpkins - its not rock - you suck!" (not everybody, but most) ... this is what Im trying to get at, what can Billy do that would make everybody happy? He can't get the Smashing Pumpkins (original) back together, he can't go solo without being compared to the Pumpkins sound (which is ironic as it is an idea to be a diverse sound) ... music is all he knows. The guy needs to make a living. Im not happy with how this went down, yet again a bad management of a relationship with fans has happened. This could have been clear with a statement from both parties, or even god forbid a short video to show "everything is cool". Im with you all on that. This is a balls up, goes with Corgans "Adore is a techno" record etc ... he has a history of making statements thinking people are "in on the know". When he leaves people in the dark. However, is it solely Billy's fault? Why couldn't have Jimmy made this statement first up. The blame can't be in one direction. As for not hearing from Billy, this is pretty harsh still ... I could 'read between the lines' and say Im sure he is thinking of the best way to word it and when to approach it best ... because every word of what he says next will be scrutinized. The next song he records/releases will be too. As I mentioned the emotions are running high at the moment, because people are having to ask themselves ... will I continue with this band or is it a "thanks for the music so far, I'll see you every now and then". This band got us all through some tough times in our lives, but this band is no longer the band we once knew. What needs to happen is BC needs to make a statement, and quit. Explain his plans and fucking stick to them. Release some songs, even if its just acoustic stuff ... as long as it is heartfelt. ... and this isn't me glossing over everything Billy does, that is just plain offensive to imply I have no brain to make honest judgements on Billy's decisions. This is me accepting this what has happened, how it happened doesn't bother me (thats me) its not going to change anything. I know this isn't how everybody is, but with the Pumpkins (or any band) or in my life I try to not dwell on the why. (yeah yeah, hippie mentality I know - peace and love man - groooovy) Amen to all you said
|
|
|
Post by PaRkA on Mar 26, 2009 9:26:00 GMT 7
sunks i just realised you added a bit to the end of your post. the bit where you said it doesnt bother you how it happened.. would you be pissed if jimmy left because of actions from billy? (if there was any), or in relation to this apparent direction he wants to take, i think thats what im pissed about the most, sure if jimmy left with a clear mind and state and there was ABSOLUTELY no bad blood i would wish him the best and tell the pumpkins to keep on trucking, but if he left for reasons untoward, then i want to know why, i think as a fan we have a right to know the truth, however it turns out. i just cant help but feel a loss of respect for the direction of the band, and the band itself if jimmy's left for the reason of direction and lack there of.
i just want the music to give me the same feeling, i just think that thats what is missing for me which makes the whole jimmy leaving hurt more, i hope that i get that connection back, i am in no way saying the pumpkins are nothing without jimmy cos they were when he was kicked out and i was there and they were at their best, but the music had feeling it made me ride a wave of emotion that i havent felt since the reunion, save one or 2 songs.
"im all by myself, as ive always felt"
|
|
|
Post by sunky on Mar 26, 2009 10:11:33 GMT 7
No worries man. if I came out (or does come out) that Jimmy left because of Billy's actions and that was the sole reason. yeah I would be pissed off that two people who have gone through so much together, at this age, stage in their lives can't get their "personal" relationship together ... that would be highly dissapointing.
"i just want the music to give me the same feeling"
Parka, Im with you on that. Bit of honestly for me, yeah I enjoyed Zeitgeist / American Gothic ... I enjoyed it ... but it didn't grab me the same as previous years. However there have been the few shining lights that are giving me hope, songs like If All Goes Wrong, 99 Floors, Owata, Peace + Love.
I saw one person mention on another forum, o-board maybe? that alot of people are refering to Adore and saying Billy did that, why not again. They went on to say that he was in a very personal state that time of his life - Martha's passing, divorce to Chris, Jimmy etc ... it was a dark time, and with dark times came some great music. Im not saying that it WILL be like this, but Im not writing Corgan off without giving him a shot.
Losing all former members now, this is a pretty dark time ... could this be a reflective time for him, where he finds great inspiration? A Blissed and Gone part 2 ... "Sweet 17 Sour 42" ... ?
This is the real game time. Siamese Dream the band "had to make it" to stay alive, MCIS they "had to make it to seperate themselves", Adore "had to be made as the personal album," Machina "had to be the final farewell" ... Zeitgeist was the "we are back and heading forward" ... but it just missed the mark, for me. The whole era was a mess and as you said Parka, some could say lacking direction in a way. I am concerned without the other people involved there will be lack of direction.
As much as James and D'Arcy were claimed to be 'not the greatest players' I think they brought a good 'business mind' to the group. Not in business in the sense of money making, but in a way they were other voices of reason. It is clear that has been missing the past 2-3 years. Its obvious. I look at James and Tinted Windows, everything is just 'working' for him with that so far.
I don't know where this post is going, so to stop from rambling I'll just say that I have the same worries and concerns. Im not writing him off though, I want music that really captures me again. I don't know what will happen if over the next few years I don't get that connection, what happens to this site, this community we've built for 7 years ... my work for SP. These are all things that are running through my head at the moment. These are questions I've never thought about until the past week.
I think Billy needs to speak up about this, clear the air ... then move away from confronting fans. Focus on the fans that are wanting the band to continue, not the haters he focused so much on during the 20th Ann tour.
(ok I rambled again - maybe I need to ban myself? heheh)
|
|